I agree with Shadorne. Inexpensive receivers have compromised power supplies and current delivery as also stated. It would be my first likely culprit but there may be other issues as well with room and reflection problems that might be mitigated/improved with room treatments.
New system has fatiguing, harsh high frequency sounds. How to fix?
I just purchased my first audio and home theater system (other than a bluetooth speaker or computer speaker system). I use it for listening to music as well as watching movies. It is a tremendous upgrade and I’m enjoying it. It has clarity and detail that I have never heard before. However, I notice a harshness in the high frequency sounds when listening to music.
I would like my treble to be smooth, sweet, soft, silky and gentle. Right now it is the opposite of that. It is annoying, screechy, metallic and harsh.
I am seeking a solution to that issue. From the little I have been able to find on this subject, it seems that room acoustics might be a big part of my solution. Is that true? If not, what is my next step? An equalizer? I can’t see many options for big changes in speaker placement. At most I can move them a few inches or change the angles.
My listening room is about 11.5 feet by 11.5 feet and square except for the doorway in the back corner which protrudes into the room 18 inches x 44 inches. In the room are a bookcase, couch, end table, media center stand (holding TV, center speaker, receiver, disc player and Roku), computer & computer monitor, my speakers (and rear speaker stands), a ceiling fan and that’s about it... I’m describing the room on the assumption that the room (or its contents) are relevant to the treble problem I’m describing. (However, throwing some thick blankets over my TV and computer monitor, as a test, did not change the issue.)
Here are my home theater components:
Speakers:
The front speakers are on either side of the LG TV on the front wall (and near the room corners. The front speakers are angled in. Minimum distance to wall is 10", but measuring straight/parallel from back of speaker to wall is at least 18". From side of speaker to wall is at least a foot (one side of room has 30 inches). There is only 3" between each RTi A5 and RTi A7 speaker.
The rear speakers are behind the couch at each corner and against the back wall.
One subwoofer is in the back corner. The other is midway on the other wall and angled toward listening area.
For music, I usually prefer listening in 2-channel stereo. The dual pairs of front speakers are awesome. (I initially started out with a 7.1 layout but I prefer this layout now.) The high frequency problem exists even in 2-channel stereo. It also exists if I use only 1 pair of front speakers.
Wiring
All speakers are bi-wired, except the center (and subwoofers), which don’t support it. (Not bi-amp’d, just bi-wired*.)
Speaker wire: Mediabridge 12AWG 4-Conductor Speaker Wire (100 Feet, White) - 99.9% Oxygen Free Copper - ETL Listed & CL2 Rated for In-Wall Use
* https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/
Banana Plugs:
I would like my treble to be smooth, sweet, soft, silky and gentle. Right now it is the opposite of that. It is annoying, screechy, metallic and harsh.
I am seeking a solution to that issue. From the little I have been able to find on this subject, it seems that room acoustics might be a big part of my solution. Is that true? If not, what is my next step? An equalizer? I can’t see many options for big changes in speaker placement. At most I can move them a few inches or change the angles.
My listening room is about 11.5 feet by 11.5 feet and square except for the doorway in the back corner which protrudes into the room 18 inches x 44 inches. In the room are a bookcase, couch, end table, media center stand (holding TV, center speaker, receiver, disc player and Roku), computer & computer monitor, my speakers (and rear speaker stands), a ceiling fan and that’s about it... I’m describing the room on the assumption that the room (or its contents) are relevant to the treble problem I’m describing. (However, throwing some thick blankets over my TV and computer monitor, as a test, did not change the issue.)
Here are my home theater components:
- Computer monitor: WASABI MANGO UHD400 40" 3840X2160
- TV: LG OLED65C7P 65"
- Receiver: Sony STRDN1080
- Disc Player: LG UP875 4K BLU-RAY PLAYER BestBuy SKU 5979504
- Streaming Box: Roku Ultra streaming player (model 4660)
Speakers:
- Front 1: Polk Audio RTi A7 floorstanding speakers
- Front 2: Polk Audio RTi A5 floorstanding speakers
- Center Speaker: Klipsch RP-250C Center Channel Speaker
- Subwoofer 1: Polk Audio PSW125 Subwoofer
- Subwoofer 2: Klipsch R-112SW Subwoofer
- Rear/Surround: Polk Audio RTI A3
The front speakers are on either side of the LG TV on the front wall (and near the room corners. The front speakers are angled in. Minimum distance to wall is 10", but measuring straight/parallel from back of speaker to wall is at least 18". From side of speaker to wall is at least a foot (one side of room has 30 inches). There is only 3" between each RTi A5 and RTi A7 speaker.
The rear speakers are behind the couch at each corner and against the back wall.
One subwoofer is in the back corner. The other is midway on the other wall and angled toward listening area.
For music, I usually prefer listening in 2-channel stereo. The dual pairs of front speakers are awesome. (I initially started out with a 7.1 layout but I prefer this layout now.) The high frequency problem exists even in 2-channel stereo. It also exists if I use only 1 pair of front speakers.
Wiring
All speakers are bi-wired, except the center (and subwoofers), which don’t support it. (Not bi-amp’d, just bi-wired*.)
Speaker wire: Mediabridge 12AWG 4-Conductor Speaker Wire (100 Feet, White) - 99.9% Oxygen Free Copper - ETL Listed & CL2 Rated for In-Wall Use
* https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/
Banana Plugs:
- Mediabridge Banana Plugs - Corrosion-Resistant 24K Gold-Plated Connectors - 12 Pair/24 Banana Plugs (Part# SPC-BP2-12 )
- Sewell Silverback , 24k Gold Dual Screw Lock Speaker Connector
- Ocelot Banana Plugs, 24k Gold Plated Connectors, Open Screw Type
- ...
- 121 posts total
This has been very educational. Based on the advice received here (and my experiments so far), this room is too small for both home theater (with the large screen) and optimal music listening. Covering the screens while listening to music will prevent me from picking songs, etc. So I am going to try moving my music listening location to another room. I made a new post on that topic here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/amp-or-receiver-recommendation-for-polk-audio-rti-a7-floorsta... For this small room, with the feedback I received here, I was able to achieve a great movie sound experience with the existing Sony receiver. This room can work well for home theater. Here are the speakers I'll use:
I'm going to put my budget toward the music system that will go in another room. See thread linked above if you care of offer any suggestions. Thanks for the great feedback here. I will keep experimenting with all this, so please continue to comment here if you wish and I'll keep reading and trying things. |
Follow these directions, given by JohnnyR (audioconnection)861 posts01-02-2018 10:01amThe second Flat screen is causing an unwanted reflection Try removing that one to the left first. Next push the other flat screen tv as close to the wall behind it. Next, pull the front speakers at least 5 inches in front of the Big screen. Let it run for many hours 175 at least. Make sure you SPL all speakers again. Best JohnnyR |
lowoverdrive- Welcome! As the responses to the OP amply demonstrate, if you ask a question like this to 4 audiophiles, you will get 6 or 7 different answers. You have done a good job of responding and describing the results of your experimentation so far. Issues like break-in and cabling should not be the source of overwhelmingly harsh high frequencies. Here are my observations, some of which align with yours: 1. That is a lot of speaker for a small room. You are listening in the near-field and that speaker is not designed for that. 2. One review I found noted a forward sound with sharp attacks and an edgy sound. Another review said that could be a bit harsh. A consumer review said they were for "treble lovers only". In the near field with modest electronics, that could easily be perceived by someone else as a fatiguing harsh treble. 3. The speaker is also described as requiring lots of power to open up. The receiver has been measured to provide only 65 watts/channel at 0.1% distortion. If that distortion is of the wrong kind, 0.1% can easily be very audible as harshness. Solid state amps that use feedback to keep the measured distortion low often create that kind of distortion. 4. Your small room has two very large glass reflective surfaces (TV and computer monitor). In sum, you have inadvertently created a sort of positive feedback loop; positive in the sense that all of these factors contribute to the sound quality you described, with an overemphasis on the treble. You found that changing the speakers helped some. You also noted that the AVR and small speakers are quite adequate for movies, and asked about using the larger speakers with different electronics in a larger room for music. That is probably the best solution because you probably cannot change enough of the factors that re-inforce each other in that small room. Modest priced AVRs generally "sound" like they have less than their rated power when playing music and have much of their $$ allocated to digital signal processing, auto-calibration, and the gazillion input and output jacks/plugs/ports on their rear panels. If you cannot return the large Polk speaker, then I would look for electronics known for a warm or slightly laid back sound (often described as a British sound) and put them in a larger space where the speakers can be well out from the wall behind them and where you can place furniture/pillows, curtains, etc to break up reflections and enhance diffusion of the sound. If it's just for music, an integrated amplifier might be a good cost-conscious solution. If you give us a budget and whether you want to buy new or used, we can make specific suggestions. |
- 121 posts total