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Upgrade Opinions, Thorens vs VPI

I'm looking to possibly upgrade to a better turntable.

My current setup is a Thorens TD166 MKII with the original tp11 tonearm. The table has a few mods including a solid cherry plinth and birch bottom with sorbothane feet. It also came with the 10mm spindle bearing, same one used on the TD160.

Amp: Rogue audio Sphinx 
Preamp: MM preamp built into the Sphinx
Cartidge: Shure M97xe with SAS stylus
Speakers: Monitor Audio Silver 8

The components listed above are my recent upgrades. I now think my table is due for an upgrade. 

I am considering installing a Jelco SA750D tonearm on my Thorens, since the tonearm is likely the weakest performing part of the table, or going with a completely new table.

I am considering the following tables:

Rega Planar 3 (possibly not a big leap?)

Rega RP8

VPI Classic 1 

Acoustic Signature Wow XL with Rega arm.

I am leaning toward the VPI, partly because I really like its look, but I do want the best sounding table under $3000 (subjective I know). Overall, I'm pleased with the current sound from my Thorens, so maybe the best bang for my buck would be a new tonearm. Some members have claimed that a Debut Carbon will blow the doors of a TD166, but in my personal experience, it's the opposite. So I'm thinking I'd probably need to spend over 1K for a real sonic upgrade over my Thorens.

Anyone have experience with VPI tables versus Thorens TD16X series? Any advice is welcome.
helomech
raymonda
855 posts
 
Yes, I was referring to the Well Tempered Record Player.

Yes, it is fun modding and pushing classic tables to their max. You get your hands dirty, have more skin in the game and end up with something personal. Besides, it is alot of fun, too.

Right now I'm listening to my maxed out 150 with a Michell Tecnoarm arm and modded Denon 103. This table will tell you what your cartridge is doing, both the good and bad. It's fun shaping out the Denon for either of my modded Benz cartridges. It certainly give me a different window to view through.

My td850 has a current audiomods arm which is handing what my benz m.9 delivers. It has carbon fiber boards and a origin live motor. This table plays as well as any VPI. That is not to talk down VPI, as I feel that make great tables but rather to point out that there are alternative paths to get you there.

That being said, the 160 series can bring a great deal of fun but it does have limits to how far it can go. However, replacing the stock arm will get a great deal more out of the table.  

What ever way you end up going you are asking all the right questions and going in the right direction.

helomech OP
1,508 posts
 
I appreciate everyone's input. I'm about 90% set on going the route of continuing to mod the Thorens. However, I do enjoy really deep bass, and I've read that even the best sprung turntables never excel in that respect.
veriwide100's avatar
veriwide100
16 posts
 
I don't think modding is the answer... the table either has it or it doesn't to begin with. I owned a TD124 for many years along with a VPI HW19 MKIV w/SAMMA and I can tell you that while the 124 was very good and way cool to look at, the VPI was the better table. I can put a stethoscope on the super arm board that holds my Moerch UP4 arm, turn on the table and hear absolutely nothing. Try that with the 124 or 160! A used MKIV would be a great option.. you can start with a "lesser" HW19 and build it up over time like I did as well.   
sancho22
106 posts
 

I am with stewart0722 above. I own the Prime with Ortofon Cadenza Black with the Phoenix engineering system and upgraded (HRX I think?) record clamp, double pulley. Sounds really great and with the 3D arm it is hard to beat. You don't have to go crazy with the cartridge but a good one makes  a huge difference.

Now I also own a nicely, but not fully restored TD-124 with SME 3009 arm which was rewired. It has a Denon 103 and a nice plinth - all in equals the price of the Ortofon (which I got with a very significant discount). Comparing the two tables from this perspective I would say that the TD-124 (MK-I) stands the test of time.

raymonda
855 posts
 
The Thorens TD 850 is a different beast. It was made by Acoustic Signature and is built like a tank. It is a non-suspended table that absolutely has no resemblance to their sprung tables.

Stock this tables was very good. What I've done to it has elevated it to another level.

That being said, comparing it to my maxed out and modded 150 is not night and day. However, the devil is in the details. 

I could live happily forever with each table. But I am on a limited budget, so mega buck tables are out. They compete with tables in the 5000 range.

These units will play nicely with high end components and will tell you what is happening both up and down stream.

Now,  this is not a path that everyone would or should take as it requires an added skill set to achieve, as well as time. A quicker route would be to buy a Prime and be done with it. I can't imagine ever looking back and regretting that purchase. Although, the personal achievement and satisfaction would not compare when creating something on your own. Or at least, pretty much on your own.

Designing, cutting, drilling, finishing is not factored into the enjoyment of a straight out purchase.

Pride in creating can be of high value when the end results pay off.
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