Moonglum,
Thanks for your thoughtful and thought-provoking followup.
Yes, thoroughly cleaned records are in fact noisier than *almost* clean records, for just the reason I explained. That's not a prediction, a theory or based on anyone's white paper. Its a statement of findings based on my own listening experience while cleaning, rinsing, re-cleaning and re-rinsing thousands of LP sides.
If others tout the efficacy of methods or machines based on totally silent surfaces, well, that's their privilege. I can only say that I've re-cleaned many such records for friends. In every case, bar none, the improvement in micro-dynamics and fine detail was audible, sometimes stunning. Also in every case, there was an increase in low level groove noise.
The fact that MF touted quietness as his standard is merely an appeal to authority, which does not interest me. My standard is set by my ears. Truly clean records sound different that "almost clean" records and the ultimate yardstick is not silent backgrounds, it is the presence of the lowest level of musical detail and nuance. I listen to vinyl for the music, not for lack of noise.
Your points regarding an interference layer are well taken. While I've never heard such, the evidence for it exists in the gradual dis-coloring of a stylus that is not properly cleaned after each side. Some of that contamination must, of course, remain in the groove.
This should cause me to re-think the "clean once and forever" strategy, though the law of diminishing returns must come into play at some point. It takes me 20 minutes/side to clean an LP now, longer if it was noticeably dirty to begin. I would hope followup cleanings could be quicker, but I've not taken it to that degree... yet. ARGH!
Thanks for your thoughtful and thought-provoking followup.
Yes, thoroughly cleaned records are in fact noisier than *almost* clean records, for just the reason I explained. That's not a prediction, a theory or based on anyone's white paper. Its a statement of findings based on my own listening experience while cleaning, rinsing, re-cleaning and re-rinsing thousands of LP sides.
If others tout the efficacy of methods or machines based on totally silent surfaces, well, that's their privilege. I can only say that I've re-cleaned many such records for friends. In every case, bar none, the improvement in micro-dynamics and fine detail was audible, sometimes stunning. Also in every case, there was an increase in low level groove noise.
The fact that MF touted quietness as his standard is merely an appeal to authority, which does not interest me. My standard is set by my ears. Truly clean records sound different that "almost clean" records and the ultimate yardstick is not silent backgrounds, it is the presence of the lowest level of musical detail and nuance. I listen to vinyl for the music, not for lack of noise.
Your points regarding an interference layer are well taken. While I've never heard such, the evidence for it exists in the gradual dis-coloring of a stylus that is not properly cleaned after each side. Some of that contamination must, of course, remain in the groove.
This should cause me to re-think the "clean once and forever" strategy, though the law of diminishing returns must come into play at some point. It takes me 20 minutes/side to clean an LP now, longer if it was noticeably dirty to begin. I would hope followup cleanings could be quicker, but I've not taken it to that degree... yet. ARGH!