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The pursuit of bass...

Most people would probably say that the most important thing for a speaker to get right is the midrange and I'd have to go along with this myself. If the midrange is too shouty or too recessed or just tonally inaccurate, the other qualities of the speakers are pretty much pointless regardless of how great those qualities might be.

However, with that said, I do not think that the midrange is the most challenging part of a speaker to get right. In my opinion, that award goes to the bass frequencies. Sometimes I listen to a speaker and it is indeed the midrange or treble that is holding back the sound quality, but far more often, for me, it's the low frequencies. I find that I’m more forgiving of midrange flaws. Midrange flaws don’t impact my musical enjoyment as much as bass flaws.

Now, of course, the bass is also the most vulnerable to room acoustics which just exacerbates the problem. But, mostly I blame the speakers themselves. Many fine speaker manufacturers simply ignore the problem by rolling off the bass early. I won't name any specific brands to avoid a flame war, but this is very common. Often I will see specs for frequency response that indicates -6db at 50hz. This is typically very unsatisfying bass. Also, many speakers are not balanced properly across the frequency spectrum so that while they might dig down to 35hz or 40hz, they don't sound like it because the bass is always underwhelming compared to the volume level of the midrange and high frequencies.

The speakers that do attempt to reproduce good solid 40hz bass, often still sound quite bad when reproducing those frequencies. And I'm not talking about pipe organ bass here, I'm talking about the 35hz to 55hz range. Unfortunately, really good minimontors that are amazing with 60hz up, really are missing out on a lot of the presence and atmosphere created by those low frequencies. Emotionally connecting to the music and suspending disbelief is easier with quality bass reproduction. For some reason many audiophiles are willing to live without it. I can understand this since pursing quality bass can be a frustrating endeavor. Also there is cost to consider. Good bass typically comes from bigger speakers and is therefore considerably more costly. But even the best mini-monitors usually commit the sin of omission in the low frequencies.
jaxwired
audiokinesis
2,711 posts
 
Jax2, can you tell me what your main speakers are? That might help me come up with suggestions.

One possibility is to rotate the speaker-listener-speaker triangle perhaps 15 or 20 degrees clockwise or counter-clockwise, as seen from above. This will introduce asymmetry in the horizontal plane, and may reduce the depth of the 80 Hz dip.

What happens to the 80 Hz dip when doors are left open or closed? An open door can be a very effective bass trap, for better or for worse. Does the room have a closet? Try that as well.

I couldn't tell you why Earl favors white noise over pink noise; the latter is what I'd be inclined to use but Earl is one very, very smart guy so he probably has a good reason.
dwr
113 posts
 
I pretty much agree with Tim916 I am using 3 subs now in my 2 channel. I have built all 3 subs. 1 is an 18" Maelstrom X in a sealed 6.2 cu ft enclosure, the second is a 15" Dayton in a 6.7 cu ft sealed enclosure, the 3rd is a 12" ported 3 cu ft enclosure Peerless XXLS. My Geddes Abbey 12As arrive in 3 days. This system will be set up as Tim 916 describes. I am following Dr Geddes philosophy on subs (multiple randomly located) room frequency measurements will follow when I get the speakers. Up to this point using my Definitive Technology speakers with the 3 subs. The bass in my system is the best it has ever been by a large margin.
jax2
3,031 posts
 
Jax2, can you tell me what your main speakers are? That might help me come up with suggestions.

One possibility is to rotate the speaker-listener-speaker triangle perhaps 15 or 20 degrees clockwise or counter-clockwise, as seen from above. This will introduce asymmetry in the horizontal plane, and may reduce the depth of the 80 Hz dip.

What happens to the 80 Hz dip when doors are left open or closed? An open door can be a very effective bass trap, for better or for worse. Does the room have a closet? Try that as well.

I couldn't tell you why Earl favors white noise over pink noise; the latter is what I'd be inclined to use but Earl is one very, very smart guy so he probably has a good reason.

Hey Duke, thanks for the response. It doesn't matter which speakers I use, the suckout always seems to occur at the same point. Looking at in-room response curves the dip is there whether full-range or monitor or? No closets. One single door, and I WILL try closing it and see what happens when I next have a chance. It is immediately next to my right speaker and I usually leave it open with diffusors in front of the open door (first reflection point). The opposite side first reflection has no wall at all. The triangle-rotation is a great suggestion, but WAF prevents that option without major domestic disruption.

Thanks, Duke!
audiokinesis
2,711 posts
 
Jax2, the reason I asked about what speakers you have is to see whether the port tuning could be changed (lowered) which would allow a small subwoofer to be added, preferably along the rear wall or in a rear corner.

Duke
jax2
3,031 posts
 
Duke - My current speakers have no ports, (no boxes either, for that matter - they are solid). They do have powered subs. The speakers they replaced did have ports, as did the speakers I had previous to those. You could look at the in-room graphs for all three and there would be the same 80hz (+ or - 10hz) suckout on every one. Also on a pair of ported monitors before that - same suckout. All but the current speakers have been ported. Various room treatments also did not change this. My current speakers have a relatively flat response down to 20hz in room so they aren't otherwise suffering in the low end. There's another dubious dip at around 200hz that keeps showing up as well that I suspect is a room thing, but it's not nearly as steep as the suckout at 80hz, which is usually around 10db.
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