Is harmonic accuracy and timbre important at all?


Disclaimer: I am not Richard Hardesty in disguise. But I have reached similar ground after many years of listening and equipment swapping and upgrading and would enjoy discourse from a position that is simply not discussed enough here.

I feel a strong need to get on a soap box here, albeit friendly, and I don't mind a rigorous discussion on this topic. My hope is that, increasingly, manufacturers will take notice of this important aspect of music reproduction. I also know that it takes time, talent, money and dedication to accomplish accuracy of timbre in speaker design and that "shamanism" and "snake oil," along with major bux spent on fine cabinetry that may do little to improve the sound, exists everywhere in this industry.

I fully acknowledge that Dunlavy and Meadowlark, a least for now, are gone, and that only Vandersteen and Thiel survive amidst a sea of harmonically inaccurate, and frequently far more expensive, speakers.

Can you help me understand why anyone would want to hear timbre and harmonic content that is anything but as accurate as possible upon transducing the signal fed by the partnering amplifier? It seems to me if you skew the sonic results in any direction away from the goal of timbral accuracy, then you add, or even subtract, any number of poorly understood and potentially chaotic independent and uncontrollable variables to listening enjoyment.

I mean, why would you want to hear only some of the harmonic content of a clarinet or any other instrument that is contained on the recording? Why would you not want the speaker, which we all agree is the critical motor that conveys the musical content at the final stage of music reproduction, to provide you with as much as possible by minimizing harmonic conent loss due to phase errors, intentionally imparted by the speaker designer?

Why anyone would choose a speaker that does this intentionally, by design, and that is the key issue here, is something I simply cannot fathom, unless most simply do not understand what they're missing.

By intentional, I mean inverting the midrange or other drivers in phase in an ill-fated attempt to counter the deleterious effects that inexpensive, high-order crossovers impart upon the harmonic content of timbre. This simply removes harmonic content. None of these manufacurers has ever had the cojones to say that Jim Thiel, Richard Vandersteen or John Dunlavy were wrong about this fundamental design goal. And none of them ever tries to counter the fact that they intentionally manufacture speakers they know, by their own hand, are sonically inaccurate, while all the all the same in many cases charging unsuspecting so-called audiophiles outlandish summs of money.

Also, the use of multiple drivers assigned identical function which has clearly been shown to smear phase and creates lobing, destroying essentially the point source nature of instruments played in space that give spatial, time and phasing so important to timbre rendering.

I truly belive that as we all get better at listening and enjoying all the music there is on recordings, both digital and analog, of both good and bad recording quality, these things become ever more important. If you learn to hear them, they certainly do matter. But to be fair, this also requires spending time with speakers that, by design, demonstrably present as much harmonic phase accuracy that timbre is built upon, at the current level of the state of the art.

Why would anyone want a speaker to alter that signal coming from the amp by removing some harmonics while retaining or even augmenting others?

And just why in heck does JMLab, Wilson, Pipedreams and many others have to charge such large $um$ at the top of their product lines (cabinetry with Ferrari paint jobs?) to not even care to address nor even attempt to achieve this? So, in the end I have to conclude that extremely expensive, inaccurate timbre is preferred by some hobbyists called audiophiles? I find that simply fascinating. Perhaps the process of accurate timbre appreciation is just a matter of time...but in the end, more will find, as I did, that it does matter.
stevecham
Great post songwriter!
"I suggest that anyone owning a pair of well designed time/phase coherent speakers for 6 months would never be able to go back to what most manufacturers claim as "hi end" again. I have been listening to Green Mountain Audio speakers for the last 3 years and I can now hear the crossover in every non time/phase coherent speaker I hear."

Glad I'm not the only one that notices this. I even hear it in 1st orders that aren't time/phase coherent.

Tarsando
Here's an article on the subject. You may become tired of reading it also. Phase, Time and Distortion in Loudspeakers .

Plato does make good points. There are certainly no perfect speakers. You pick your poison and live with it. I just hope designers don't get too far away from the time aligned and phase correct approaches.

With more and more people listening to compressed crap on Ipods. It looks dismal for the guys designing speakers without the hyped treble and pronounced midbass humps..

I use to own the Dunlavy SC-II among many others and agree with Plato that there are many of ways to skin a cat. That's why I enjoy listening to my recently acquired Spendor S8e loudspeakers which are not time/phase coherent but they do the tone/timbre and texture thing quite well!*>)
Steve, in your listening experience, what speakers have you found to be harmonically accurate? Anyone else?
How come no one has anything to say about almost all recording studios using "incorrect" speakers to mix albums? I would think this would make most recordings inherently incorrect, making correct speakers moot, wouldn't it?

Isn't this also a problem with live music that isn't acoustic? Most live venues don't use "correct" speakers. Songwriter mentions "live sound direct from an instrument to our ears" but leaves out that much of that music is run through incorrect speakers in very large speaker arrays at large venues such as Madison Square Garden, or Giants Stadium, etc, which use incorrect speakers. Most live music is incorrect unless it is acoustic.

I don't understand why no one is addressing these issues. Don't we tolerate incorrect speakers all the time if you take these issues into consideration, or am I missing something? In particular B&W is used in some of the most popular and widely used recording studios around the world, and aren't those time-coherent instead of time-coincident?

I'm hoping someone will address what effects these issues have, so I can understand why they aren't significant. If all most all albums we listen to are time coherent but not time coincident, then why would it matter if we play these albums back on 100% "correct" speakers as opposed to fairly "incorrect" speakers. Please have some pity on me with the vocabulary, I do not have a lot of experience with all the terminology being used. I do not know a large amount of terminology but I am very interested in understanding the significance of this thread and all the issues therein.

Thank you,

Jeff
and some people claim they love coffee, but add so much cream to turn the color pale, and so much sugar to kill the taste altogether. Does this mean they don't really like coffee or don't know how to taste...

I happen to agree with the original poster, but believe a desire for harmoic accuracy depends upon a number of things. For many, distortion is a much sought-after effect to help with some inherent problems with the music:

1)The music doesn't benefit from accuracy (ie. electronically generated music, pop, rock, country, etc).

2)The musicians are not accurate (this includes 99% of recording musicians).

3) The engineering is not accurate (50 ft drums, voice filters, and voice that emanates from the entire soundstage).

4) The listener places a higher priority on other musical features (dynamics, smoothness, listenability, etc).

For acoustically generated music and professional singers and engineers that know their art, accurate music reproduction is a must. However, not everyone likes this music.

If I liked jazz, my rig would probably be quite different. Most of those performances are from the 50s, have a rawness about their sound, and don't always benefit at the hands of the engineer. It makes sense in these situations to add a little sugar to the cup. You lose some of the emotional content and the musical context, but you gain listenability.