Price/performance curve

Onhwy61 Well I am getting a little off track here but I want to make a point about 20K speakers with deep bass and rooms. I don't know if you remember Lewis Lipwich a writer for Stereophile and Bass Basoonist with the National Symphony Orchestra. Back in the late 80's or early 90's he reviewed a pair of B&W 800 Speakers in a small room 15X13 or something ridiculous like that. He went on to describe the virtues of the system especially the bass response of the speakers. I was laughing my butt off reading it because it didn't make any sense. How can a speaker larger than a coffin in a room that size support the bass a speaker like that is capable of. Big speakers with great bass resolution require a BIG room otherwise you are throwing your money away based on my observations over the years. I have heard it set-up correctly only a few times. The best full range bass set-up I have ever heard was Vandersteen 4's in a VERY large room with a cathedral ceiling. It was real and accurate, breathtaking even, very quick with natural decay, like the real thing. I have never heard bass like that before or since, including audio shows and individual systems. Getting low accurate bass is not easily accomplished. Your other points are well made and I would agree, providing your room is large enough to support the subs, otherwise I would have to hear it to believe it has the resolution in the low frequencies without Mr Boom rearing his ugly head. I am VERY sensitive on this subject, bass that brings attention to itself or sounds exaggerated is fine in a home theatre application but has no place in a high end audio system, it doesn't sound natural or real to my ears. That is not to say that you don't have the room. Out of curiosity what are your room dimensions, and how are the speakers set-up in the room? Cheers Will

Michael You have asked a really interesting question the more I think about it. I will say this, that price point doesn't necessarily quantify a specific level of performance. Case in point Vandersteen 2ce Signatures. These speakers when matched to the best in electronics and a good source (I love them with ARC gear) offer on my subjective scale at least an 80, (I'm starting to sound like Martin Collums, for g sake). Every speaker in their price range that I am familiar with (one I even owned) don't fair as well. I still think they compete with many speakers in the 2-3K range WITH the right components. I don't necessarily equate higher price with better. It is a general misnomer that your system will automatically improve it you upgrade. Synergy is much more important. I have added more than my 2 cents worth on this subject, how about some other opinions.

Gentlemen: a final point from me concerning bass reproduction. To accurately reproduce deep bass, you need a room about 32 feet in length, since that is the length of a 20hz soundwave. Not may rooms are that long. Beyond length, the width of the room and the height of the ceiling will contribute to the overall acoustic properties. If you have ever heard a large pipe organ in a cathedral (we are fortunate in the Seattle area to have a number of fine pipe organs), you also know that decay is an important factor, particularly in bass reproduction. So, at best, most people will never hear accurate, full-bodied bass in their homes. At best, it's an imitation of the real thing. What does this have to do with the question in this thread? A lot, since obtaining the theoretical 100 points is ultimately gone to depend more on your listening room than spending $50K or more on your system. Back to my original post: I still think that the $10-12K range will get you about 80-85 points, and to do much better will necessitate spending a lot more, on both equipment and acoustic environment.

Here is a diferent view.A crappy room hasen't dimmed my desire for more/better.That .05 better, is what I live and spend for.You're free to call it like you see it.As am I.

I went over to a buddies house the other day and checked out his system (around 5k) It was great, musical, tight bass and smooth top end. We listened for hours and had a great time. I have a system that is a lot more expensive. When I got home I put some of the same music on that we were listening to. I would say that my system was not just 10-15% better, it is a completely diffrent experience, magnitudes better. I'm not saying my friends system isn't great, it is. I just don't agree that there is only a 10-15% diffrence between 10k and 100k systems.