What does listening to a speaker really tell us?

The most neutral system is the most musical is the most transparent is the most appealing is the most engaging and is the most everything because WE are the final judge of each. Every time we choose something it isn't because we have access to some divine rule of audio that others simply missed out on. Whether we're talking politics, audio, cars, or choice of life partners, WE are the point of neutrality on that grand, subjective scale called personal opinion. We might try and substantiate our choices through scientific fact, or by quoting a respected source in the audio industry, but each new 'teammate' for our cause is no more than a simple attempt to validate our own personal choices. We choose according to your own parameters and standards, and then many of us forget that they are only opinions.

Bombywalla, for you it might be the system that distorts the least. For someone else, it might be that last bit of inner detail brought on by shifting a bookcase a couple feet to the right. Some people just want to be moved by the music, while others are jazzed by being able to say they own a particular brand of speakers. We can debate right and wrong forever, but in the end, if you turn on the power switches and ease into a chair with a smile on your face, who cares?

sometimes it is that I am listening to the performance. Sometimes it is the sound of the recording, regardless of its real merit. Even that has its variables. I love "gear". I love music too. What luck I can actually rationalize in such a way that the recording, performance, and gear can all be married together in my perceptions about how this works. It is a blessing to me, and a bit torturous too. But, overall, I am happy that my mind and heart can be given to such considerations. The advice to listen to Speakers before you buy them is solid. They have their own sound and that contributes to what you hear, and i guess you could say your speakers have the final word since they are speaking for the system as a whole. The individual contributions of the components that make up your system are accounted for here, and that is from your electronics to your room to the way you perceive sound and performance. Being largely subjective content means that what your speaker tells you could be as changeable as your perceptions, and most influenced by your preferences rather than the handful of absolutes you might come up with. This is more about love than obligation, and therefore not always reasoned with effectively. Listen and you will know- at least for the moment, if you are beyond reason.

Well said, Boa2.

Bombaywalla, why do some people love SET amps? Are they the most neutral? I don't think so. But in some key areas, they may be more faithful to the experience of music.

Onhwy61 said:

(snip)Let's not lose sight that there is an objective reality somewhere beyond the firing pleasure synapses in our brains.

As soon as you bring a human being into the picture it leaves the realms of "objectivity". It may fire some pleasure points in each of our brains, or it may not, and what each of us does with that is entirely unique. It comes down to the age-old question, "If a speaker is playing loudly in the forrest, and there is no one there to hear it and analyze it ad nauseum here on Audiogon, then did it really happen?"

furthermore, from the beginning of that same post...

If I understand them correctly some people are arguing that if a specific piece of equipment makes them feel good, then it must be good equipment. That's an absurd notion.(snip)

I don't think that's quite it. The point is more accurately that if a specific piece of equipment makes a specific person feel good, then it is indeed a "good" piece of equipment to that specific person. Period. End of fact. Nothing, and it bears repetition, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS to that person, especially someone else's opinion of what is "good". User AgonArseWipe loves his iChing Final Fortune DAC. Does that mean the Final Fortune is a "good" DAC? No, it just means AgonArseWipe experiences it that way. Is there one single DAC that's going to pleae AgonArseWipe, SolidStateMadness and SET4Ever? I very much doubt it, and if there is, that same DAC may not at all please Gotmoremoney! Lets say the iChing Final Fortune DAC has the most uncanny ability to positively, and without deviation, reproduce a musical performance verbatim through some remarkably synergistic system. Do you think we'd all like that reading all the responses above? Do you think it may matter at all to most people? What is absurd to me is the idea of a black and white world where good and bad are absolutes. So what is verbatim? Is that something measured by machines and plotted out on graphs and in databases of zeroes and ones? Where is the humanity in that?! Sorry, but there is no 'objective' where humans are concerned. If you and I witnessed the same event from close to the same position, we would likely tell entirely different stories of that event. We would perceive and experience that event in different ways. Could be subtley different, could be profoundly different. But it ain't likely going to be the same. Such is the basis for the much simplified demonstration of the very principle in the child's game, "Telephone" where one person whispers a phrase into anothers ear, and that phrase is to be passed verbatim through a large group of people till it gets to the end of the line. It is pretty rare that the phrase remains the same from beginning to end, yet supposedly the translation from individual to individual is verbatim.

The whole thing is just as subjective as anything else in life. Who's going to tell you what the "best" music is? Or the "best" food to eat? Well, I guess there are plenty of folks who are willing to tell you, but are you really going to listen to them? And if some group of geeks in Redmond, WA came up with a program that they'd been working on for the last decade that actually analyzed and quantified such things into zeroes and ones and sine waves and pie charts, and analyzed all of that to spit out just exactly which food does taste "the best", would that data mean anything beyond a novelty to you as an individual? But the machines told me so!?

Marco

Marco, You sound like an anarchist. What do you mean everything is subjective? We live in a land of laws and rules, and objectivity rules! Don't be preaching that soft thinking stuff around here. We who know, know best! I just lit the fagots under the tar pot, killed the goose, and am out looking for a long rough pole. We are coming for you! :-)))

Sorry, couldn't resist.