Jazz for aficionados

****and it's so absurd. Everything with an African origin is changed to something else****

I find that comment fascinating on several counts. Yes, it's true that throughout musical history (and history in general) there are many unfortunate examples of African contribution to the art not given sufficient credit. But, don't you think that it is a kind of political correctness, to suggest that also giving credit (correctly so) to the contribution of other nationalities to an art form that is clearly a melting pot of many influences, somehow detracts from the importance of the African contribution? In fact, what has been happening in recent times is exactly the opposite, and demonstrates the danger of political correctness in the arts. The incredibly rich African contribution is now highlighted at all cost, at the expense of other contributors, and even exploited to make political statements, or for profit. The danger is not only that others are denied deserved credit, but that by it becoming politically incorrect to criticize art with African origins, we actually hurt the artistic heritage of a culture (think rap).

I am at a loss to understand how acknowledging the fact that Latin music is more than just a single, African influence somehow detracts from the importance of the African influence. Rok challenged one of my comments this way:

****"Ok, take away the Spanish, and Arab components and what is left? Drumming?"

You might want to reconsider this****

Really? Let's delve a little deeper and actually see what is left if one takes out the Spanish and Arab components. But, lets have more than just opinion; let's use concrete examples and analysis.

Your example of the movie "In Brazil" is an interesting one. Brazilian music is acknowledged to have a strong African influence. How do you propose that "credit" be given? Should every Holywood movie with a John Williams score give credit to the folk music of the native people of Hungary, since Bela Bartok had some influence on John Williams' composition style, and the music of Hungary was an influence on Bartok? Pretty convoluted, no?BTW, correct me if I am mistaken, but I think the movie that you refer to is "The Americano", set in Brazil. The reason that the music sounds so much like the music in "Cuban All Stars" is that the composer for the score in "The Americano" was Xavier Cugat, who I am sure you know was a Cuban composer. Actually, he was not Cuban, he was Spanish and spent many years in Cuba. See, as I have been saying, in this music there is more than one single important influence and they are all connected.

To clear the air:

First:
I was mistaken when I refered to the Buena Vista Social Club Cd as Afro-Jazz. My mistake. No where in the documentation that came with the CD does the word Jazz appear. I loved the music whatever it is, and I am sure it's african based. My ears tell me that. And that is my only point. It is not spanish and the indians were wiped out eons ago. So what could it be? I will not considered those pesky aliens from the crab nebula.

Cheers

I will answer your other 'points' in a while.

O-10,
It's sort of like politics. Either you define and defend yourself, or others will do it for you. 'Others' are trying to define Jazz. Although the odds are overwhelming, I for one, am going down swinging. 'Others' have already destoryed: Rock & Roll, Gospel, Blues, R&B, Country and Western, and Country. Jazz and Blue Grass are now under attack and have been for a long time. Once they go under, that will be the end of AMERICAN music. We will be a big ball of diversified multicultured, internationalist noise.
Classical is under attack also, but it's not American in orgin. Who is attacking this music? The below average, The average, the wannabes, the non talented, the 'if they can do it, I can do it', the 'I should be able to be WHATEVER I DESIRE to be' crowd.

Buy and enjoy the good stuff while yuu can.

Cheers

****It is not spanish and the indians were wiped out eons ago. So what could it be?****

C'mon man, let's stay focused. Nobody said anything about Indians; only as concerns the influence on the Peruvian music that you brought up earlier; and there it is undeniable.

Now, Spanish you ask? You better believe it! Go a little deeper into the history of this music. Don't rely only on liner notes; they ususally only tell a small piece of the story. The traditions in this music run very deep.

For starters: where do you think the prominence of the guitar and, more specifically, the "laud" and "tres" came from? Spain; but more specifically, the Arabs by way of Spain. The Moors invaded Spain and brought with them these instruments, their tuning and way of playing them. Then there is those pesky issues of harmony and form. Show us one example of native African music that uses harmony and form in a way remotely resembling that in the type of Latin music that we are discussing; or in Jazz for that matter. Please understand, and I will say it again: the African contribution to this music is obvious and huge; but it is far from the only one.

Jazz was created by African-Americans. Not folks in africa. We are talking about people of African decent. Pay attention. Guitars? other instruments? That's not 'influence'!

Influence is when one thing changes another. Show me how Arabs have changed Jazz. Spainards. Really? One example of influence and change: Be-Bop! Dizzy and the boys started playing it, and almost everyone after that began to play it also. There was no law that said they had to, they were 'influenced' by the new music.

Individual players can be influenced quite easily. Miles with the fusion thingy. All he did was open the door for a lot of no talented wannabes. BUT JAZZ is an entire genre. It's not as easily influenced. The main thing about influence is this, once influenced, you never go back. Being the maker of certain instruments does not qualify as influence on the music played using those instruments.

Dizzy went to cuba a lot and played with cubans. He may have cut an Lp or two. That is not influence. Unless he played with latin motifs for the rest of his career. Otherwise it was just a project to cut a LP. Something new.

Duke Ellington went on a tour of the middle east to find new music and cut some LPs based on the music. He wanted to improvise over all the different types of music. But, he said it all had a 'sameness' to it. So he made the LP, but not the one he had invisioned. He then went back to being The Duke! He was not influenced! Just a project that didn't work out as he thought it would.

Influence does not mean playiong latin music or playing with different instruments or singing in a different language. Influence is much much more. It changes how composers think in writing the music. It changes the creators. It changes the trajectory of the entire genre.

As far as I can see be-bop has beee the only real change to Jazz. Hard bop is just a natural progression of bop. All this avant garde, and free stuff are just failed efforts to change the tracjectory of the music.

The Arabs had nothing to do with it. hahahahahahahah I always thought they beheaded folks for even playing music. I know the taliban does.

Using your line of logic, we could say, the Big Bang has had the biggest influence on Music. Lauds INDEED!

Cheers