Attention Scientists, Engineers and Na-s


Isn't it funny how timing works. With all the different discussions on proving this, show me fact on that and the psycho acoustical potential of the other thing an article comes along with the same topics and some REAL potential answers. I received my newest copy of "The Audiophile Voice" Vol.7, Issue1 today and on page 16 is an article written by David Blair and Bill Eisen titled "In The Matter Of Noise". The article focuses on disturbance noise but has some reference to thermal noise, low frequency noise and shot noise, and our ability to measure these noises with the equipment of today. We have measured noise as low as 6x10 to the power of -5, or approximately a few cycles per day. We have also found through laboratory testing that the human brain is stimulated with frequencies from just above 0Hz to just below 50kHz. U.S. Department of Defense documents also show studies of low frequency activity below measurable levels and there various affects.
The article then begins to talk about out of band (hearing) noise and in band noise produced by our electronic equipment and the potential of these noises effecting our sound system. The assumptions are that "disturbance noises rob our systems of dynamics, low-level information, tonal purity and stage depth". These effects are for the most part overlooked and misunderstood by the scientific communities. They say they think that our speakers being hit with "massive quantities of R.F.I. are affected" A very good quote referring to power filters was "Effective noise control imposes no sonic tradeoffs or downside." How often have the discussions here on Audiogon focused on what they are doing? A very interesting comment was that Teflon is capable of carrying 40-Kilovolts static charge, and the industry is touting this as a great insulator for audio signals, that's scarey!
Now I bring this to light because I believe the view of the "Scientists and Engineers" here on Audiogon is so narrow that they are failing to see the exciting challenges in front of them. If all these noises do exist, which they do, and they can be transmitted and received through our systems, isn't possible, just maybe feasible that the insulation of our wires, the casing of our dedicated lines the size and shape of the conductor could, just maybe effect the sound? Isn't it even possible that forces set off by electrical components could be interfering in some so far unmeasured and inaudible way affecting the sound. Do you all test within the full spectrum of 0Hz to 50Khz for every possible situation? Or is it possible, just ever so small of a chance that you are overlooking a whole new science yet unexplored. Doesn't that, even slightly excite your little scientific fossils?
Man if I was younger, healthier and wanted a challenge. This is a career if you'd just climb out from behind you oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzer and see the world is indeed still spinning, and yes, it is 2001. Remember how 30 years ago 2001 was going to be so exciting. What the hell have the Scientist, Engineers and Na-sayers who tote there stuff here on Audiogon done for the advancement of science. Anyone, have any of you really broken through! J.D.
128x128jadem6
Remarkable.

No way to respond without seeming sarcastic. I'm sure Detlof didnt think I was suggesting that speaker cables were tested with headphones. I dont even know how you'd do that.

Lots of people believe and argue that all interconnects sound the same. As far as speaker wire goes, lots of people believe and argue that if the gauge is sufficient for the length of the cable, all copper wire, stranded, solid or whatever sounds the same. Im not sure if many people claim that copper and silver are indistinguishable, but some do.

So, if I hear a difference between 12 gauge copper stranded and 11 gauge Audioquest or 9 or 13 gauge Kimber or doubled twisted 14 gauge Romex in lengths for which 14 gauge should be more than adequate, am I hearing real differences in the wire or is it indigestion?

Oh, Detlof, if you read this, is Mogami 3082 marketed where you are? If so, what does it cost, and do you know anyone who has used it?
Paul, nope, it isn't and I don't know any Mogami owners. Your thoughts on the webside in question parallel mine, however it got me thinking all the same and Jostler well put. My wife used to take the cards away for good. Regards!
Sorry about the speaker cable thing, Paul. My brain must have gone on the fritz for a second, there. As for what explains the differences you hear among similar cables, your presumption of difference is definitely a factor, but it's not the only one. Connection quality may be an issue, as well as levels. And as those ABX results show, it takes a very small difference in levels to make an audible difference (and at those levels, you won't even notice that one is louder than the other).
Jostler, I never presumed they would sound different. I dont know of any reason why they would. They just do. But you bring up a question Ive been meaning to ask. Why would the volume level be different from one wire to another. Speaker cables or interconnects?
Philiphans: What I have are 3 x 12 AWG and 3 x 14 AWG. Double the size of the 12 AWG would be 9 AWG. Are you suggesting I double the size of my power cord and AB it or not?

Katharina: What do you find troubling? ABX testing IS comparative testing by listening alone, minus the cues that cause biases and therefore invalid listening results. Inattention to biases and prejudices does not make for better evaluation. If you trust your hearing, you should especially try to understand what it means to test by only hearing.