"I'm a little late to the party here and in "you got to show me" thread but would agree with many of the "live and let live" posts." Yes, you are late, but that doesn't matter. But that doesn't explain your comment above. You've jumped on board the identical erroneous conclusion as the people you're purportedly agreeing with. No one ever suggested, least of all me, one shouldn't listen to any particular type of music because it is inferior to another. To the contrary. What I HAVE suggested, is a person who doesn't understand a certain type of music shouldn't be so closeminded to suggest that because they fail to understand it, the music has no merit!
"Whether it was Ellington or Armstrong, Presley or the Stones, they all started playing variations on themes originally presented by Handy, Johnson, Dixon and Waters."
Hardly! Explain to me where Presley, the Stones, or even Armstong played anything remotely close to placing one scale upon another? Ellington began doing this in the 30's long before it became in vogue in jazz in the 50's, and his doing so hardly related to a variation on a theme from Handy, Johnson, or anyone else that preceeded him. These new harmonies all came about by design, not as a variation upon a theme. Additionally, this is but one example that makes jazz different than more traditional structures of song form. There are COUNTLESS others. Most of which are way beyond variations of a theme. You're chosen word (variation), has oversimplified the complex harmonies of JAZZ.
I enjoy a healty debate as much as the next person, but it's important that information be accurate.
"Personally, I am waiting for the Blues series on PBS, but not holding my breath. Jazz may not get the respect it truly deserves, but Blues gets even less."
Finally, someone echoes what I've been saying since the beginning of this thread. Bottom line. Jazz doesn't get the respect that's due it, and I hasten to add, that is probably because folks choose not to investigate it enough to understand it! Those that do, understand that there's more happening between the lines than their ears first hip them to. Those that don't, close their minds, and their ears, and therefore miss out entirely. The appreciation of jazz, like any other art form, is enhanced with some rudimentary understanding of music. Time well spent if you ask me, as the analyzation of any musical form only serves to reap greater rewards upon the listener!
"I think, however, Coltrane, that you're engaging in some serious historic revisionism when you state above that rock was born out of jazz."
Historic revisionism. That's a fancy way of saying you've been hit over the head with the truth, and it's unsettling to you. Study the technical structure of rock in the 50's, 60's, which is a basic I to V to I to V chord, with an occasional IV chord tossed in, and Voila, you have nothing more than a basis for the Blues, which you obviously are aware is the basis for a lot of jazz. Pardon my getting a bit technical, but it's difficult to even address your comment about "historic revionism" without at least providing some example of the inaccuracy of your statement.
Enjoy!
Coltrane1
"Whether it was Ellington or Armstrong, Presley or the Stones, they all started playing variations on themes originally presented by Handy, Johnson, Dixon and Waters."
Hardly! Explain to me where Presley, the Stones, or even Armstong played anything remotely close to placing one scale upon another? Ellington began doing this in the 30's long before it became in vogue in jazz in the 50's, and his doing so hardly related to a variation on a theme from Handy, Johnson, or anyone else that preceeded him. These new harmonies all came about by design, not as a variation upon a theme. Additionally, this is but one example that makes jazz different than more traditional structures of song form. There are COUNTLESS others. Most of which are way beyond variations of a theme. You're chosen word (variation), has oversimplified the complex harmonies of JAZZ.
I enjoy a healty debate as much as the next person, but it's important that information be accurate.
"Personally, I am waiting for the Blues series on PBS, but not holding my breath. Jazz may not get the respect it truly deserves, but Blues gets even less."
Finally, someone echoes what I've been saying since the beginning of this thread. Bottom line. Jazz doesn't get the respect that's due it, and I hasten to add, that is probably because folks choose not to investigate it enough to understand it! Those that do, understand that there's more happening between the lines than their ears first hip them to. Those that don't, close their minds, and their ears, and therefore miss out entirely. The appreciation of jazz, like any other art form, is enhanced with some rudimentary understanding of music. Time well spent if you ask me, as the analyzation of any musical form only serves to reap greater rewards upon the listener!
"I think, however, Coltrane, that you're engaging in some serious historic revisionism when you state above that rock was born out of jazz."
Historic revisionism. That's a fancy way of saying you've been hit over the head with the truth, and it's unsettling to you. Study the technical structure of rock in the 50's, 60's, which is a basic I to V to I to V chord, with an occasional IV chord tossed in, and Voila, you have nothing more than a basis for the Blues, which you obviously are aware is the basis for a lot of jazz. Pardon my getting a bit technical, but it's difficult to even address your comment about "historic revionism" without at least providing some example of the inaccuracy of your statement.
Enjoy!
Coltrane1