transparency vs. detailed

Hi-hifi-
...I know the real love of hifi for me is to ramble on and on, without regard to anything meaningful.Nice to have that understanding. I actually appreciate the definitions provided here because-sadly enough, I did confuse transparency with detail. Giving thought to this I realize that I would far more value transparency over the perception of detail.

Check out this Stereophile glossary of terms.

http://www.stereophile.com//reference/50/index1.html

transparency, transparent 1) A quality of sound reproduction that gives the impression of listening through the system to the original sounds, rather than to a pair of loudspeakers. 2) Freedom from veiling, texturing, or any other quality which tends to obscure the signal. A quality of crystalline clarity.

detail The subtlest, most delicate parts of the original sound, which are usually the first things lost by imperfect components. See "low-level detail." Compare "haze," "smearing," "veiling."

Hi Timf,

Why settle - you can get both :)

From reading some of these definitions, if transparency exists then all other factors exist. If a transparent system allows you to feel like you are listening to the original sounds, then detail, musicality, soundstage and all we hold dear would also be there, no? Transparency is then less than a useful term since it describes everything.

I wonder whether transparency is more like the second part of the stereophile definition -- i.e., it is more of an overlay than the only objective. For example, detail can exist without the sound being tonally correct or neutral across the spectrum. Perhaps transparency can exist even if the soundstage is lousy, detail is not all there or dynamics are bad.

I don't think audiophiles have yet developed terms that are truly "orthogonal" or independent of one another. I'm still struggling with the language but I think that no term stands alone but must stand with a variety of concepts to really be understood. And, almost every term overlaps with others. Right now, I wish audio terms were more transparent ;-)

If detail, tonality, neutrality, great dynamics and soundstage are present, does transparency have to exist? Or could some other factor still make all that sound veiled somehow?

Transparency = low background noise. Electrical hash, crosstalk, speaker x-over haze, bad AC power, stranded speaker wire all reduce transparency.
Detail = hear intricate parts of music like from e-stats or multi-driver dynamic speakers.
I think of transparency more in electrical terms and detail more from the speaker (except maybe SS is more detailed than tubes) and hi-rez CDP like SACD.
Passive pre's and choke regulated power amps may be more detailed but that's due to more transparency than detail per se.
Just my thoughts and if anyone can clean up something I'm overlooking, I'd be interested.