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Reference DACS: An overall perspective

There has been many threads the last few months regarding the sonic signature of some of the highest regarded reference DACS (Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) here on the GON. I have been very fortunate to audtion many of these wonderful pieces in my home or friend's systems. I wanted to share, in a systematic way, my impressions/opinions with you GON members for a two reasons: 1)That my experiences might be helpful to fellow members interested in audtioning these DACS. 2)Starting an interesting discussion regarding the different "sonic flavors" of these reference digital front ends. I totally agree with the statement, "if you have not heard it you don't have an opinion". Therefore, I have no comments regarding DACS from Weiss,Goldmund,Audio Aero and Burmester because I have never had the pleasure of audtioning them. I would love to hear from members who have and share their experiences with us. My overall impression is that these DACS(Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) can be grouped into two molar categories regarding their overall sonic signature. By the way, all of them can throw a large/deep soundstage with excellent layering in the acoustic space with "air" around individual players on that stage. However, than they start to part company into two major categories. Category #1) These DACS "flavors" revolve around pristine clarity, fine sharp details,speed,very extended top/bottom frequencies,and great PRAT. These DACS never sound "etched" or "in your face" but are more "upfront" then "layed back" in their presentation. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Dcs,Ensemble,Meitner. My personnal favorite in this group is the Ensemble, which I owned for two years. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Wilson,Thiel,Dynaudio, Focal/JM Labs. Category #2) These DACS "flavors" revolve around a "musical/organic" sense, natural timbres,and an easy flowing liquidity. Their "less forward" presentation my give the impression of less detail, but I think in this case its an illusion fostered by their more relaxed/organic manner. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts. I did find that the tube DACS did not have the top/bottom frequency extenstion and PRAT of the SS DACS in this bracket. For me, the Accustic Arts DAC1-MK3 gave me the best of both categories, therefore it is now the resident DAC in my system. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Magnepan,Von Schweikert,Sonus Faber. Well, it's all just my opinion regarding these digital pieces, but I hope this post was at least informative/somewhat interesting and would lend itself to other GON members sharing their impressions, not about what DAC is the "BEST" in the world, but your personnal taste and synergy with your system.
teajay
branimir
236 posts
 
Osgorth,
If you already decided for all MBL setup then it most logical step to go for 1622 and 1611E. In all MBL system they will be very hard to beat IMHO.
But, to my ears MBL 1621/1611E combo is not better then Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s or Metronome C2-A Sig/Kallista Reference combos...
So, for your all MBL system 1621(or even better new 1622) and 1611E are good choice IMHO.

Just as a comparison Metronome combo is more powerfull sounding then MBL IMO. And it is my current #2 sound favorite.

One other thing-your MBL dealer should provide you with 1621/1611E combo to audition it in your future system. You are buying complete MBL system at his place!!
osgorth
109 posts
 
Branimir, thanks for your response!

Yes, I am already leaning towards the MBL combo because of the way the cheaper 1521+1511 sounds, and the synergy with an all-MBL setup is fantastic. It's really, really natural!

Yeah, don't worry, I will be auditioning it too, but I've decided to purchase the speakers and amps first, and decide on the CD later. :)

By the way, do you think/know the 1622 will be as good at playing Red Book CDs as the 1621A is? Somehow I doubt it will. The DAC is the same I've learned, there is a plugin module for the 1611E that makes it SACD-compatible.
sw23
6 posts
 
I've been taking a serious look at the 1611E myself. My understanding from Peter at MBLUSA is that the SACD module is a more complicated addition than a simple plug in, even though on the back of the unit it looks like there is a nice clean spot for it. I think it needs to be sent back to Germany to have the work done and it is not trivial. Still, it seems to me that that a reasonable strategy would be to do the 1611e now and then do the SACD transport and the upgrade to the dac at a later point in time, I think over the summer when it is available. Right now, they can't even quote a price on the upgrade.
nilthepill
842 posts
 
My opinion on the MBL digital front ends differs from you guys. I have auditioned 1621/11 and 1521/11 in all MBL system. The 16xx with 6010d, 9011 mono blocks and 101 speakers. The 15xx 1ith 6010d, 9008 stereo amp and 116(?) speakers. In both cases I would describe the sound to be more on neutral and thus towards more on flavor #1 side than #2. The sound is very resolute, detailed and unforgiving (if recording is bad). But realistic sounding with good recordings but with a bit less weight than other reference systems I have auditioned. Better than esoteric one box model and the dcs combo. IMHO. In contrast audio note dac 5.1 and Metronome combo (very little audition time)has extreme bias towards # 2 flavor.
rene_l
8 posts
 
Hi. Very nice thread Teajay! Wonderful input too! Branimir, can you give me your thoughts about this:

I listened to a P-03 / D-03 / G-0s stereo setup. The combination of using this external masterclock together with ES-LINK (1 AES per channel) between P-03 and D-03 was far more superior IMO than likewise using i-LINK (firewire). Unfortunately bad thing is that i-LINK is the only option when using multiple D-03s for a multichannel setup.

I was not able to hear yet a P-01 / D-01 / G-0s setup, simply because I don’t know where to find them in Western Europe. You classify these products as the utmost achievable as front end. Each channel is indeed connected with ES-LINK, which I experienced as the best. Again unfortunately, their flagship 01-series is not able to handle DSD signals as the newer 03-series can do. I know this is a wonderful RBCD thread, but talking so much about Esoteric I would give it a short try and high quality multichannel sound (SACD) is important to me (as is RBCD).

You wrote 10-23-06 “my guess is that Esoteric will release updated version of flagship D-01/P-01 (D-01 D2/P-01 D2???) pretty soon as well with further in-depth involvement with dual DACs (PCM1704/AD1955)”. You also wrote about the character differences of the 03- and 01-series. Are they becoming more alike after that D2-upgrade? If so, what would be the reason (i-LINK?!) why someone would pay an almost double price for the 01-series compared to the likewise 03-series?

Other question, what is changed with “4th generation VRDS NEO”?

Finally… I wish Esoteric 01/03-series had a BLACK-option too!… They would fit better with the other components and don’t reflect light in a MC-audio/HT-video environment.

Furthermore I can say that I’m building (May-07) a new setup around VTL Siegfried (KT88) with VTL TL7.5mkII feeding W/A Alexandria. No cables yet, but I’m interested in Jorma Design’s “Prime” XLR+SP cables. What type of transport/dac do you -and/or other readers- see as best match with this gear?

I believe in the existence of brand-synergy between amp/preamp, transport/dacs, IC/SP-cables and speakers of course when using different types together.

For digital gear my favorites so far are Esoteric, which IMO sounded (and is build) better than EMM Labs, but at a higher price too. Not yet available but in 2007 to be expected dCS MC-gear (with right cables they can deliver real honest and involving music). Beautiful Weiss Medea+Jason (incl it’s upsampler 24/192), but the latter ones are not MC. And finally Theta’s soon to be expected Generation VIII (used as dac only, separate preamp!) connected with their Compli via MegaLinque, a technique to transfer DSD-signals direct to the Gen8. The CasablancaIII would only be a controller and DD/DTS-decoder than with only dig-IN plus dig-OUT, no internal dacs, and smooth integration of HT in a MC-audio setup. But best sound first, than HT, therefor my interest in Esoteric. Look forward to your opinion!

Regards, René
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