Lamm ML1 question

Deano: Most NOS tubes are discards. They were not up to the standards of the day. What do you think, someone stuck tons of these tubes in a vault and forecasted that one day these tubes would be worth a fortune?

Most manufacturers have no idea how to select tubes. There are a few that I know of that really know their sh*t. Vladmir Lamm, Ken Stevens, Michele at Tenor Audio, Victor Komhenko, EveAnna Manley are just a few.

My experience with the Telefunken 12AX7 is the opposite result. I found them microphonic and tubby. I had and probably still have a large supply. There are current production tubes that I prefer by a wide margin.

Hey Russ....congrads on the new acquisition!

Thanks Rick--the Lamms are actually a partial payback from my wife for the new kitchen, and a recycling of money from the sale of my JP80. They're excellent amps, with most of the strengths of the Jadis but not the drawbacks, and they work very well in combination with the JP200 preamp, just as the Lamm LP2 does.

I've viewed Jonathan's and Deano's posts with some interest. Jonathan, you may be right about discards, as there are a lot of bad NOS tubes out there, but my experience with Andy Bouwman's tubes is that they are anything but discards. I would say that in my Jadis equipment the NOS tubes are FAR better, both sonically and from a longevity standpoint, than their modern equivalents, but keep in mind that my Jadis equipment was designed at a time when Telefunken, Amperex and Mullard were manufacturing the tubes that we now call NOS--it stands to reason, particularly as the Jadis equipment seems to have been "voiced" in its design, that those tubes would sound right in them. Lamm is designing around the tubes currently available, and picking the best of those they can find (I'm told that Lamm has to throw out about half of the tubes they get), so it is quite likely that those tubes should work best in their equipment. Interestingly, though, Lamm apparently does not "voice" its designs, which is why I wondered about trying NOS tubes in them. Guess it won't hurt to try!

Jtinn-Peace Brother!! No, I do not think that tons of tubes were purposely put away for future use. But there are tubes that have survived time in some radio shop or basement to begin life in a lucky audiophile's system. That doesn't automatically make them a reject. For one reason or another, they just were not ever installed into any gear. I met an older man at a ham-fest a few years ago and struck up a conversation with him. He had a few small signal tubes that were nice looking (ended up testing very good) and I asked him if he perhaps had anything else at home that I may be interested in. "Oh, I got a basement full of junk"-he says. So I make the journey down to his place and find seven-brand new-in World boxes wrapped in brown tissue paper-RCA 845s!! I about died! "Had 'em for years, but got rid of the radio that used 'em"-he says. Does this make them rejects?..no. So I scooped them up and later testing showed they were all as new. I do know from personal experience that correct tube testing is critical if you are going to do tube rolling. Andy rejects many tubes during his testing. Some tubes have a higher reject rate than others. I have sat by his side quite a few afternoons while he goes thru his stock making up tube sets for me. I too have experienced where Telefunkens were not the greatest. Actually it wasn't my idea at all to try the Telefunkens. It was suggested to me by Mr. Shushurin himself, as I was standing in his Brooklyn basement workshop with him and my dealer, admiring his production workshop. Peace Brother...

Deano: I certainly did not mean to sound as aggressive as my post came off. I just re-read it and I was a tad too strong. :(

Andy has a great reputation and does the work necessary to choose what is worth owning. He is very expensive, but most can rest at ease when purchasing from him. I just think that those manufacturers who know the tubes well enough, know what current production tubes will excel. Even more so than most of the NOS tubes available.

I have no doubt that Vladimir suggested Tele's to you, but did he think it would improve the sound of his equipment? I am not so sure.

I tried numerous replacements (Telefunken, Amperex, etc.) for the JJ ECC83S tubes in the Tenor amps and never found anything that came close. The sound changed, and it was different, but to my ears, never as quiet and never as clear as with the current production JJ's.

Why is it that manufacturers like Tenor, Joule Electra, BAT, and LAMM successfully use the 6C33's when Atma-sphere was never able to properly use them? Nothing against Ralph, but the other manufacturers knew exactly which 6C33 tubes to order. My point, again, is that if the manufacturer really knows the history of the tubes and how to hand pick them, for what he or she is using, it is hard to find a replacement NOS tube that would better it.