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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
ait
480 posts
 
How about this:
I have been reading this thread for weeks (or is it months)and have had the same thought the entire time - the BEST cap is no cap.
Volleyguy, if you are this sensitive to caps, why not go to a single-driver system, or a multidriver, multiamp, electronic crossover system? I myself never heard real music in my home until I heard a high-end system with no passive crossover at all, with silver wire all the way to the voice coil. Even if you don't like the no-crossover sound, compared to the price of a system full of Duelunds, you could put together an impressive active x-over system.
g_24
17 posts
 
Volleyguy does love his Klipsch Lascala speakers and just like so many of us who enjoy our speakers as well and want to maximize their performance, I have enjoyed reading these escapades. I don't believe that the very best speakers are either crossoverless or active. There are so many wonderful manufacturers of speakers that use crossovers and so these issues should be addressed. Does it always mean that if you have less then it is absolutely better?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Ait

Yes the thread has been wayyyy longer than I ever thought it would be myself.

Is your active system Linn? or another kind?
That was/is the alternative as I own an all Linn system and only need one more amp and aktiv cards to be passive crossover free.

Linn has maintained all along that aktiv crossover and more amps is cheaper than high quality passive. (like Duelund level) It may be cheaper on the used market. New Linn amps are not cheap either.

G_24
That has been an issue I have wondered as well is a very good passive better then aktiv? Aktiv has a circuit board and the effect of those components on the sound right?

Linn does talk about there new boards being better (which they may be) but that indicates weakness in the begining.

Duelund does seem to be signing up quite a few speaker companies to their list.

I am thinking of wiring a "A" network this weekend, which is less parts again. (one less inductor and one less tweeter cap) So somewhat less cost.

Sorry for the length of this thread but when I looked at doing any of the recommended choices people thought, none of them would have had me very happy.

My choices were
1. Sonicaps
2. Mundorf Supreme
3. Mundorf SIO (which is the one I thought I wanted without hearing ANY of the three I guess I like the oil idea)

I am glad I did not do any of the three to be honest as they all were downgrades in some way and some by a lot in my opinion.

What was strange is there were people who would say any of those are much better than the originals?

In the midrange the best cap I have heard so far is STILL the vintage. Duelunds are coming (now that owner is back from honeymoon) and I do hope they are better. (I "think" they will be)

This rebuild proved to be not as quick or as simple as I thought but I have learned a lot.

I thought I did owe it to the Klipsch though as for almost 30 years I have not wanted for anyone's speakers. How many people do we know who are always changing speakers and at great cost.

I do want to compare this system when done to a fully loaded Linn aktiv with their top speakers, just to see. Even with the Duelund (expensive parts!) I will still have chump change into this compared to a system like that. I do know this system smokes my current Linn passive system by a MASSIVE margin.

One thing you do not have with this is the look factor!
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Ait

This is a quote from a Linn website with a well respected guy there listing his best upgrades ever.

Those 5140's are my speakers and that Klout is my amp.
He has that upgrade listed BELOW going from tri-wired to quin wiring on the speakers. That is not a big jump to me?????

(from Linn website)

What are your best ever upgrades?

Best upgrades

1. Axis to Sondek LP12 - Axis, Basik Plus, AT-OC5 to black LP12 Circus, Trampolin 1, Lingo 1, Japanese Akito, K18 Mk.1 with Mk.2 stylus replacement.

2. Ikemi to Sondek CD12

3. Klout aktiv AV5140s to mono-Klout tri-wired Akurate 242

4. Keel

5. tri-wired to quin-wired Akurate 242 (you just have to do this!).

6. CD12 to Klimax DS

7. Intek to pre/power amp (2nd hand Naim 62/140, ahem).

8. T.Kable (hear all of what your LP12 is actually extracting from the record).

9. AV5140s mono-Klout to 3 Klout aktiv AV5140s

10. Kan II (on K2 stands) to AV5140

11. Naim NAP 140 to Klout

12. Trampolin Mk.1 (a naturalness of timing I've not heard from anything else).

13. Japanese Akito to Ekos Mk.2
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Could really use some help guys.

I am really thrilled with the sound of foil caps but do not really understand what the design differnce is? Why do they sound different?

Poly caps have plates and the electricity jumps from one side to the other through the dielectric. Does the signal in the foil cap do the same?

An Inductor is a continous winding of copper that blocks high freq by the skin effect? Therefore is the quality of everyone's inductors closer than caps? To me the difference in caps is HUGE. Is it the same for inductors? or is Alpha Core's inductors, Mundorf's Inductors, Duelund's inductors very different and in what way? and why?

Is the coating on the copper wire the reason?

Since my order was made before the price increase Duelund is allowing me to add to that order to complete my crossover. But this is a one shot deal meaning whatever I order that is it and any new orders are at the new price.

So Duelund's raised there prices a lot. So this is a one shot deal for me and has to be done on Monday.

So any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

I am almost certain to get all that is needed and am going to try the CAST tweeter caps and CAST inductor and VSF midrange all x two.

This means errors are 2x as costly if they do not improve sound. No ordering one part at a time and seeing. One big $ guess on Monday. Excited but somewhat nervous and really trying to understand what does matter. Any help would be appreciated.
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