Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil


I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
Undertow
I would have considered Audio Note if I had some reviews on them from others. Both Tempo and Tony Gee just had not reviewed them. They may be great. (built by Jensen as well like Duelund I believe)

I had to stick to a few brands for financial reasons.

One thing I did notice that was not much talk about was dynamics. When I put the Sonicap in the midrange again I had thoughts of is this all worth it. They tend to sound not defective but not exciting. Only AFTER I had bought the caps did I read stuff like from Steen that the bigger the cap the better. (all things equal) Now I know why even caps that don't sound bad (like the Sonicap) if they were only two or three times bigger they would be more dynamic. Of course that would end the Sonicap cheap price/performance ratio.

This is something for all to consider when replacing caps make sure you get as big (dynamic) cap as before. It is not something that stands out and yells at you (like a bright cap) or a cap that tilts the sound one way or another. You will notice that the music is just not as interesting. The Sonicaps to me are nuetral so the flaws only become apparent on direct comparison.

JohnK I know you think crazy money on caps is not proper spending but I do know the fastest way to kill a speaker is with cheap caps. JohnK if 50% of the speaker on the dividing network is too much what do you think is the proper balance? Of course I understand if you could get the cap that sounded best for $1 that would be the way to go. But I do not believe you can and more expensive caps are often bigger and have more reserves.

JohnK I am curious where you think is the proper point of spending in this case? Which caps and what kind of $?
The size of the mid caps

Vintage is (can type rounded edges)
95mm long x 52mm wide x 32mm high
Total mm3 158,080 (somewhat less for rounded corners)

Sonicap
14mm radius x 50mm long so
30,772 cubic mm

Supreme (from website as I do not have the caps)
10uf (supreme caps)
18mm radius x 106mm long
107,840 cubic mm

3.3uf cap
15mm raius x 56mm long
39,564 cubic mm

For a total of 147,404mm3

So a Supreme is roughly 5x as big as a Sonicap and likely slightly bigger than the different style vintage cap. (rounded corners taken off)

So is it a wonder that Supreme's sound more dynamic??? I know some say you can not use that but both Mundorf Supreme's and Sonicaps are similiar style and you pay for what you get.

To me they sound similiar but much more dynamic. (the Supreme's)

To people who read this in the future if you go to small on your caps you get this feeling the cap sounds like a filter.
Trying to assess the Sonicaps in the midrange and they are massively undersized! Wayyyyyy below the level of the vintage. I am using this to figure out how much Duelund/Supreme to get. I can not believe how flat they make the sound. The difference is even bigger than the tweeter caps made. The vintage caps in the tweeters showed their age more than midrange. So now it is all negative with the Sonicaps. (except their is a slight less drone)

JohnK I am wondering on your Fisher rebuild did you use good caps? If they used cheap caps like this I can see why it did not sound good!!!

I will be putting in the order tonight. Here goes guessing.
Ok, I can't take it anymore. This thing about cap size and it's relation to the sound is complete garbage. Rauliruegas
explained the reason for the size differences, but like a lot of good advice offered to you here, such as burn in time, you choose to ignore it.

There is a right way and a wrong way to go about what you are trying to accomplish, so far you're going about it the wrong way.
Merganser

Not one cap has changed one bit in dynamics in break in. (that I can hear)

Can you tell me the right way then? Please do not say the lousy dynamics will somehow change at some magical hour of break in.

So are you saying that the MUCH bigger same type a cap Mundorf which has much better dynamics right out of the box is not because it is a much bigger cap?

Why is it only Sonicap that is sooooo flat? Are they special compared to others with break in. I am half way to 100 hours and after the first 5 hours I can not tell the difference. Even then the Sonicaps have not become more dynamic.