2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
YEE HAW! the caps are in. So I will be installing later tonight. I may just hook up a CD player for the burn in part after I sound demo new out of the box caps to log the sound in.

I was always looking for a log like this. I found lots of guys say it was great and do it, but did not know what that meant in sound terms on the same music and there feelings on it before and after.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I put the new caps in the left speaker. I wanted to see if I could hear a difference from left to right channel. It almost sounds like two systems. Like they were out of time with each other? So far the right speaker is making defective sounds. ALL the bad sounds are coming from the old crossover. I started with the old Beatles lp that I tested before which is not a good choice as they mixed all the voices from the right channel.

Strange sensation of sound it is. Left tight (not opened up) and right open but out of control and distorted. (muffled as well)

On to Beatles Let it Be.
Voices are in the both channels. Left channel (new caps) I can't say voices are liquid smooth or anything actually sound tight. Nothing defective just not musical.

Right now left channel is tight and does not breathe. (new caps) Cymbals are not offensive but sound is much more lifeless. Not distortion like the right channel but very tight sound.

Right channel is more open and at times will draw you in but the distortion is high. The right channel (old caps) sounds much more real (in voices) and sounds liquid. Which the caps are liquid filled paper in oil.

Right now this is NOT what I expected. I thought new caps would go in and be better than the 28 year old ones right of the bat. This is not the case. The liquid smooth realness to voices that gives you the feeling of being there is not there with the new caps. I wondered about Poly caps. That is why I looked a Mundorf (and still am)

New caps are not what I thought they would sound like right off. They are not loud in the midrange. (I expected that and I do not know why) The new caps are distant and tight but not harsh and brittle like a new cartridge sounds.

Dire Straight's Love Over Gold
Old caps are ALL midrange sound. The highs are much clearer with the new caps already. Like I had said before I had checked my tweeter to see if they were working.

It has only been around two hours of listening and changes are happening fast. The bass seems to be coming back I had said before I had taken of the bottom of the speaker to see if the woofer was working before as when the caps went bad sound was ALL midrange.

The realness and open sound to the voices is the only thing better now about the old caps.

Hour 3
Caps break in faster than I thought. The new caps are starting to make the Klipsch sound like full range speakers again instead of midrange and mess everywhere else. It even sounds like drums again.

When played with both speakers strange feeling of being out of time. I can see why guys talk about not mixing certain caps.

This is interesting as I always thought the speakers sound was noisy when the caps were going bad and I was exactly right. That is why I started chasing cartridge and everything else. I could not understand how all caps could go bad at the same time?

About 3 1/2 hours.
Even the voices now sound better now in the new caps. I am glad I did this (one side for a little while) as I can hear the improving caps vs. the stable old caps. I thought the Klipsch were sounding very vintage. Tommorrow I will replace the other side after a few more hours listening.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I am having having a hard time turning off the stereo. The difference is now HUGE! The cymbals are a thing of beauty and I do not think these speakers have ever sounded like this! To be honest it is the tweeters that have surprised the most. I never thought they could be that good!
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Next day around 5 hours on one set of new caps. If played in stereo it sounds like two systems with a echo sound tight and held in on the new caps and loud and shouty on the old ones.

My image of polycaps was not correct at all! I expected bright?? Not sure why but that is why I looked a Mundorf Silver in oil I thought they would smooth out the Sonicap poly sound. (at least what I thought would be there sound)

Now my old oil caps are loosy goosy out of control bright loud not what you think of when you say oil.

Sonicap reigns in the midrange to the other extreme. Almost like everything is running through a filter.

My wife walked by for a blind test. I asked (she doesn't know which speaker has new crossover) her which she thought sounded better and she said the new caps sounded like shit. Hmmmm.

I would prefer the new ones only because balance is better. But neither is good. I always thought Klipsch had a very "live" sound not now. I think my wife hears the much better breathing and voices and doesn't hear the negatives. I would prefer a cleaned up old cap sound. I do miss that liquid sound.
audioism
14 posts
 
have you heard Duelund capacitor? You owe it to yourself to try or at least audition one. It's one of the best if not the best cap right now. CMIIW.

cheers
More to discover