resolution and imaging

Wavetrader,

Thanks for the tip.

I've acquired a greater appreciation of many of the older RCA recordings in the last few years.

Learsfool, As the poster of one of the 'odd comments', lest I misunderstand, are you saying that you can distinguish the tonal qualities of each violin, and perhaps even be able to identify their maker by their particular tone, when the violins are playing en masse and you are sitting in the back of the hall? If so, you have a hearing ability that I don't possess. Just disregard the remainer of this post.

Or are you using the term in the context of being able to identify a particular type of instrument when it is playing with others, for example when all of the string instruments are playing the same music at the same volume (if this were even possible?) i.e. being able to distinguish between a violin, a viola, and a cello, playing the same note?

When using the term timbre I was using it in the context of how the violins (for example) sounded in comparison to each other, i.e. blended vs individually identifiable, not how they sounded when compared to winds, brass, percussion, nor how the various similar types sounded when compared to each other and what distinguishes their individual tones from each other. Apart from picking out instruments out of tune or players hitting sour notes I have doubts that fine distinguishing observations can be made from this distance between like (not just in the same family) instruments.

I would hope that most experienced folks can tell the difference between various instruments, even when some very similar ones play in the same register, but from the back row in the typical orchestral hall, at least the ones I have visited, I think even this would be very difficult for many folks unless there was a difference in pitch or volume to assist in the discrimination. Now if you can localize the source, its a walk in the park, but that has nothing much to do with timbre I think.

Perhaps we just use the word differently? When I have seen it used in this forum, for the most part, I have assumed the poster was simply referring to a speakers ability to replicate the sound of an instrument reasonably accurately, but only in certain aspects, which has as much to do with the speakers (and other stuff in the chain) level of resolution as anything else.

I think it must be so, since neither you, I think, nor I would ever listen to a speaker reproducing an instrument (let alone an entire orchestra) and think that we might be hearing the real thing and 'thus be able to identify with any sense of certainty subtle differences in 'timbre' between it and others of its kind.

Care to buy a 'Strad' based, not on its reputation nor after hearing it live, but only over a stereo system and relying on only what your hear then (not its reputation/cost/bling factors)? Would you be confident that its tone would be the tone that you would want as opposed to the tone of many other fine, but different, violins?

So when I listen to music over a stereo system I don't think in terms of its ability to resolve subtle timbre issues so much as to allow an open window to what the recording engineers put down. And only the lord knows what that might have been!

Now for my first cup of coffee...........

I think some are missing one of my points, imaging and lifelike sound are only one point at issue. I'm also saying that resoution is heard and/or at least somewhat defined by how well your system images and soundstages. A more palpable, dimensional image allows more detail to be hear. I contend a sytem that doesn't image and soundstage well is not maximally resolute, ie. the very spaciousness of the image and soundstage allows you to hear things that were formerly bunched up within less dimensional images and soundstaging.

Resolution and imaging are both good things.

Just think of you room as your own private concert hall that is unique and distinct from any other and don't worry about what the music sounds like elsewhere because it ain't the same so it really doesn't matter.

I'll add some observations about what takes place(my system)when very good imaging,resoltion and transparency are present. Everything has been constant for a while....speakers,cables,preamps..but I have had maybe six different amplifiers pass thru my system. Now when cables break in they morph...I use NBS. The NBS cables when new produce a directional sound from my speakers. Very left..right and vocals are on the same plane as the midrange driver...so there is some soundstage & imaging but limited. When they "come up" the sound is for the most part dispersed much more openly and vocals are center stage with a lifelike precision. I charachterise this sound as "open" and the L&R sound as "closed".

As I listened to each amplifier...I noticed differences in the imaging and soundstage...with verying degrees of openess. I use two amplifiers...one is SS and the other is tube....that is down from six(the others are in various systems(not main). Luckily both exhibit wonderful 3D qualities,resolution and transparency.

These amps morph in the same way as the cables...the tube does when I breakin new tubes and the SS when I recap with new or different capacitors. The amps at first are LR directional as they "come up" the sound is omni directional with the sound eminating with what my father observed as "Is the sound coming from the speakers??...the sound is coming from behind them..." good observation...as now the majority of recordings no longer sound LR or closed..but often are 3D holographic extending beyond the speakers and in fact beyond the room boundries.

What actually happens here is that the speakers work in a extremely coherent and efficent manner...depending on the amplifier(everything else is constant)and I think it goes well beyond just to say there is a synergy. Resolution increases...transparency goe up in magnitudes...and imaging takes on the ability to produce space and volume of the original venue. I am not a engineer so technically I cannot explain what is taking place....but I know that distortion levels must be at low levels to acheive this quality of sound. I think distortion... lack of has more of a impact than anything else. I have come to this conclusion because of the differences I hear between capacitors when I mod my equipment. FWIW