Wilson Sasha 2 Pre owned?

Wow Gprgr4blu and I agree on something. 

The Sasha 2 is way better then the Sabrina. 

The deal may be good but you should also listen to other contenders that you may prefer that are in the same price range.

These include new a pair of Legacy Aeris which has deeper bass, a bigger soundstage, room correction and the processor can also function as a dac and preamp. These are $22k new a fantastic buy for one of the best speakers in their price class.

The Kef Blade 2 $25k new used pairs are $15k-20k these are magnificent speakers which have greater clarity and a huge soundstage.

The new Paradigm Personas which are brand new at $17k for the 5F and $24k for the 7F these beat the Wilsons in terms of tranparency and have one of the most holographiic of soundstages. The are very high resolution so you have to be more careful in terms of system matching.

So I wouldn't necessarily run out and purchase these Wilsons although well loved are constantly traded for other Wilsons. or other speakers. 

If you are in our neck of the woods we have the Kefs and Paradigm models on display.

Dave owner 
Audio Doctor NJ

I think the OP should consider that almost any new speaker will be of considerably higher sound quality then a 20+ year old pair of ProAc speakers. 

Our advice would be for him to consider all of his options and take a listen to the top brands of loudspeakers he can audition.

Wilson's are very good speakers, but so are a Magico, Focals, Rockports, Kef Blades, Legacy, Personas. 

The OP should examine all of his possible choice and go and audition as many new speakers that fit his fancy.

Grgr4blu,

As usual you don't get it. The OP is asking if a pair of modern speakers is better which of course they are. Perhaps in his neck of the woods Wilson is the best speakers he can find, or perhaps he is being told by this dealer that there is no other speaker system to consider as Wilson is his only good line of reference speakers.  Or perhaps it is dealits.

We don't know where in the country this gentleman is so unless he is in our part of the country, NY Metro, he will not be buying anything from us.

The fact that there are so many Wilson toadies is disturbing, and as this is a forum, there should be more open discussions about everything.

The fact that Wilson is a very good, speaker, ex Wilson owner here,  but today has a bunch of competition from many manufacturers means the market has matured. 

So by mentioning these other brands as possible speakers he should consider with two of them being brand new might actually help the OP to open up his mind about what his options are.

It seems that you like many WIlson owners are constantly in need of self affirmation that you own or still own the best. 

I have said on many occasions these products are tools, who cares us included if there is a better product on the market if you find a better tool you buy that one.

Your narrow mindedness even as an owner, is one reason why people get turned off by the hobby. CJ, ARC, VTL, BAT, VAC or all great tube amps. but invariablly you get the owner, who is the one who has to get reaffirmed that they still own the best.

As a dealer, we sell many different brand of reference speakers, in our case KEF, Paradigm, Dali, Legacy. and we love all of them for different reasons. Hence our reason for posting was to draw the OP into thinking about the entire shopping and auditioning process which may require him to re-evaluate his methodology. 

Many times it is human nature to be swayed by a "great deal" on something which gets us excited to move on something, when perhaps a cooler approach to sit back and evaluate the possibilities is what is the best coure of action. 

As per our reviews, get over it, these people has actually been to my store and have actually demoed with me or purchased from our store. 

The fact that we garner such praise is because we make great sound, and we have a fantastic collection of great gear, but this post is not about me or my store, it is about the OP and letting him know that he may want to avail himself to the fact that there are many good choices that he may want to consider.

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ

My last point, is that the OP has not mentioned his room size, decor, and matching components. 

The Wilson Sashas are hard to drive loudspeakers which may give certain amplifiers fits at their impedance drops down to 2.9 ohms at 90hz

So again what might have worked great to power a set of Proac loudspeakers might not work well at all on a set of Sashas, while other new high preformance speakers may work better with this gentlemans existing gear.

Too many dealers are just looking to move product and unless they have had a detailed conversation to know whether or not the speakers would work well with this gentlemans setup you always have to question their motives and integrity. 

The reason for writing this reply is to aid this gentleman who has not gone speaker shopping for a long time. So yes maybe the Wilson's are the best possible fit for the gentleman, or not, the fact that he is questioning choices means he might be open to suggestions on to possible products that might be the perfect choice for his room, budget and matching components.

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ

As usual Grgr4blu, it is you who comes in and perverts a discussion, you are everything that is wrong with Audiogon sir.

As usual you are the voice of propriety,when it is not called for.

If you notice one of the people who have actually talked with me, Ricardi1, actually agreed with what I said. He said "I wish someone would have guided me when he first started. I have talked with the man and he has bought a lot of speakers before purchasing the set he has finally loved which means he has lost a lot of money changing speakers when maybe he might not have had to.

How many of us have bought and sold component after component because the system isn’t sounding like real music or is too bright or too dull or just isn’t soundstaging. The difference between a dealer and a consumer is we can generally test out way more gear at the same time then you can and we can test in our shop and make observations which are very hard to do in the field or just by going to an audio show.

You presume that everyone knows what you know and considers all the variables such as room size, and equipment matching, as I mentioned sometimes the "dealitis" sets in and all the person hears is the great deal they are getting, not would that great deal maybe cost more as now I have to change my electronics, or does the conversation come in as perhaps there is another less expensive product that might be better but it is not discussed.

Also as discussed in our many previous battles, you are in NY and so there are a dearth of good dealers. In other parts of the country there may not be, this gentleman’s local dealer Wilson may be his only high end reference line, I don’t know do you?

You agreed with me on another post that one of the products I was championing in my SBS days was a $7k Universal player that when used with an HRS or Black Diamond base and a high end power cord sounded very close to a $40k DCS stack.

When presented these finding to the owner, the owner would not believe that, nor was interested in listening to that combo to see if it was true and told me flat out it wasn’t true and continued to push the way more expensive DCS stack. I went on to demo that combo 12 times against the DCS stack and sold 12 of those players doing a direct shoot out against the DCS stack.

The point made is you think that all dealers are honest, I know of a story of a dealer who bought a lot of a certain brand of solid state electronics that didn’t sound so good but thought he could make a lot of profit by selling those products.

What you don’t like about me is I have the balls to promote products that are considerably less expensive yet really do rival way more expensive products. We told people in one of the early 2007 New York Audio show that the Usher BE 10 a $14k set of speakers  were in the same class as the Wilson WP 7 which were $22kat the time, and the Ushers used Beryilium tweeter and midrange, with an Eaton woofer hencebetter driver technology and you wouldn’t hear it. Yet the Usher BE 10 and 20 got screaming good reviews, wow we were trying to save people $8k and perhaps give them as good or possibly an even better speaker.

My crime in your eyes was talking during a demo and not just playing music, I guess most audiophiles don’t like talking about audio equipment, oh and hard selling, by recommending less expensive products that could if a person liked them save them a lot of money, wow who is the bad guy here. Yes the key to our remarkable sales ability is through hynosis to get people to purchae products from us that they don't like, I guess master hard selling must pay off do you want ot see my invisibile Ferrari?

The fact is we are alll learning, here is a question have you demoed or do you use:

Shakti Hollographs,
Shakti Stones,
Acoustic System Resonators,
Isoacoustics
Stein products
Lessloss Black Body
Audio Magic PEA and power products

These are just some of the tools that we use for system tuning and most of them I was turned on to by a friend. Before my introduction into any of these products I had no clue of their efficacy. So we can all learn from one another, I wonder what you could teach me about audio?

I find it remarkable in a discussion where the man has 25+ year old speakers how come I am the only one inquiring if he has electronics which would suitabily drive a pair of Sashas?

Did I denigrate WIlson, no I did not, All I did was to offer him some advice to check out all of his possible options.

You are just like many know it all audiophiles who claim to know more then a dealer who does this for a living. Wilson is one flavor of sound it is no better or worse than any other high performance speaker. There are Wilson fans, and Rockport fans and Magico etc, etc.

You need to offer constructive critisim on these posts, your +1 on Sashas doen’t address any of the pertinent questions which I asked and again you added nothing to this conversation other than bashing me for my loquacious nature and product knowledge.

The people who work with me or who have been to my shop have all said the same things. Read my fans, and you will see the truth, I guide people, I don’t just sell them equipment.

How about you actually add some valid points that are not about me for a change and address somethng more than the Sasha is better than a Sabrina, which is hardly surprising.

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ

Dear Pokey, Thanks a lot. 

That is one of the thing I preach is to work on creating synergy. 

Way too often in this community people are advised to switch x y or z when sometimes all it take is a simple cable swap, adding a power conditioner or some other accessory is all that is required to make a system work

When I do a tunning session I bring in multiple power cords, Acoutic System Resonators, Vibration control products and a couple of Audio Magic power conditioners as well as a few other products. 

You would be amazed by how much improvement you can get by adding some of these types of tunning products and sometimes repositioning a set of speakers.

Our 2016 New York Audio Show setup the Paradigm Personas where nearly tounching the side walls and by opening up the sound stage and by using the right amount of toe in the system focused beautifully and sounded amazing. 

Too many people are terrified to moving their speakers as wide apart as possible and worry about interacting with the side walls. The more pressing boundary is closer to the back wall which affects midbass coloration.

We used some Artnovium acoustic panels to damp the side walls and absorb some slap echo and boom we had some of the best sound at that show. 

So sometimes going against conventional though can actually work well. 

Pokey you should write a post extolling the great setup at that dealer I am sure he worked quite hard to find a setup that worked together well. 

If you are ever in our neck of the woods please come in for a visit.

Here is a picture of our New York Audio show setup

https://www.facebook.com/122499304489958/photos/pcb.1632190780187462/1632198643520009/?type=3&th...

The moral of the story is too experiment and not just look at dogma. Most people who would have looked at this setup would have told me to move the speakers much closer together, yet we tuned the room to create one or two magic seats which is the best you could hope for in a hotel room.

I keep on waiting for the OP to chime in. I am dying to know the rest of his system. 

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ

Of course Grpr4blu you don't have an axe do grind you say you have owned and will continue to own Wilsons and have owned four pairs. 

Yet when someone challenges your beloved Wilson you get all pissy.

As per making great sound read reviews of our rooms in Stereophile or the Absolute Sound and read the customer comments about people who have been to my shop. 

As per your cadre of Audiophile buddies if they are like you I would hardly want to work with them either, Forrest Gump said it well Stupid is as Stupid does, I am sure you and your buddies have way over spent on overpriced gear or made systems that you in your little group would say are terrific but without an experienced and neutral set of ears, you really don't know. Do you think one of your buddies is going to tell you your system sucks if it acutally does?

By the way I don't troll Wilson threads more than offer a voice to question the brands hegemony. Here is a simple fact Wilson makes very good speakers however, In my opinion, they are a bit overpriced for what you actually get especially compared to many of their competitors and that should be the root of this or any conversation about any product. Does it perform is it a good value? 

A pair of Legacy Aeris cost $8k less, has way deeper bass and includes state of the art room correction, and self amplified bass, biggest problem it is a much larger speaker but boy do you get a lot of value for your money.

A pair of Persona 9H has deeper bass, with active room correction and is $22k less expensive than an pair of Alexias and this speaker uses state of the art drivers and will work in nearly any sized room.

A pair of Rockport Atrias, has a more advanced cabinet, uses a Beryilium tweeter and a graphite midrange driver and is priced similarly with an amazing build quality. 

Magico gives you a proprietary diamond coated tweeter and a graphene based midrange for the same money also in a very intert cabinetl

If you notice almost all of these companies are producing a state of the loudspeakers which use all proprietary drivers. Wilson's midrange driver is a $70 Scanspeak Reed cone modified maybe but hardly state of the art in technology. Wilson does put a lot of money in their cabinets and finish. 

Do Wilson's sound good yes they do, however, if you really understand loudspeaker design, you can find other speakers which will match them or offer a lot of similar sound,  sometimes for a lot less money. 

If you like the Wilson house  sound listen to an ATC smooth, dynamic, tight bass, yet a pair of ATC SCM 40 sell for $7k not $16k and they sound a lot like the Sabrina.

As per other dealers self promotion, a very famous NY audio dealer once had an automatronic version of himself maning one of his rooms. That same dealer ran an ad stating "he is the indespensible component." 

I don't know about you but I don't know any store owner who is that high on himself. I think you need gear to play on, are you buying gear or the store owner? A  good store owner will assist you in your journey and offer suggestions to help you with that journey, if you remember the Bel Canto story of our previous encouters that famous store owner refused to listen to the less expensive player which challenged the big DCS stack yet cost 1/4 the price.

As per integrity how many dealers encourage people to consider less expensive products rather than more expensive ones?

As per one of your other quotes   about me " he'll talk your ear off with his biased self-promoting opinions which somehow always lead to a suggestion to purchase the products he sells."

What kind of idiot are you, all store owner, dealers, salespeople are going to talk about and extoll the products they sell over many others, why because they believe those products to be better than their competitors. Ask an Apple Fan or an Android fan and they will rattle off the reasons why they love one platform vs anoher.   For the record I have talked at length in these forums and to clients on products I don't sell if I think the products are good, I don;'t sell Rockport, yet I am a huge fan. 

As per being verbose, you write more than I do. 

Lets see how the community at large thinks of you and your idiocy. 

I have always been an advocate for people to listen to many different choices. If I have offended any Wilson owners that is not my intention I wanted to draw a point about pricing and what you are getting and to question the company's ever increasing upward spiral of pricing. 

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ

jbatlanta,

You are fine to love Wilson the Maxx3 is a very nice speaker we had a trade in pair in our shop, and if you read the posts I owned Wilson Watt 3/2 and five. 

The issue isn't if Wilson doesn't make a good speaker they do, the issue I have with Wilson is their ever increasing upward spiral of pricing the Maxx 3 were priced at roughly $70k the newer Alex is it $110k do you honestly think that their costs have gone up that much from one version to the other?

The issue is cost vs value. We had the Scaena 3.2 with the newer ribbon tweeters at $120k and they were amazing easily in the same class at the $200k Alexandrias. 

What I am upset about is how well Wilson has managed to control the industry when there are better made or better sounding products out there such as the Rockport Arakis or the Scaenas 

If you care to read our posts we are recommending people who are looking at the Alexia at $58k to check out the Persona 9H at $35 for a comparable speaker that costs $23k less. 

People need to check out products not be wed to brands, you may be surprised at what you find.

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ

To both bar and to jbatlanta, you guys are missing the spirt to which we first started to answer this post.

When you have a gentleman who is inquiring if a 25+ year old pair of Proacs is bettered by a set of new Wilson speakers doesn't that strike you as odd? 

If the gentleman was 100% convinced don't you think he would have just bought them? 

What we said was of course the Sasha is a much better set of speakers we also said hey for the same money why don't you check out these other options? Some of which we sell some which we dont.

The idea was to start a discussion, to see if in the entire world of loudspeakers was this set of speakers the right choice for the OP or perhaps would another product possibly be better.

What I find remarkable is not one of you guys asked any of the salient questons to see if the Wilson's would work with his gear and his room?

The Sasha can give amplifiers fits and what might have sounded fantastic with his Proacs might not work so well with his Wilsons.

This is called a discussion, not a one way just agree with the OP,  this is what I meant by Wilson toadies, the same can be said by Magico toadines and alike,  and be done with it, again if the OP was even asking the question it means that he has some reservations.

I don't know about you guys, but as a dealer we are always looking for alternatives to sometimes replace or augment what we sell, to not listen to others is to live in a vacumm where we do not learn how do we or anyone find out anything we go to shows, we read, we enlist the input of others and we test. 

As per making money with these posts so far it has almost never happened. 

We can all learn from one another and sometimes we do need to re-evaluate our preferences. 

If I said I have amplifier X  which outperfoms amp y and you happen to own amp Y do you get indignant or do you seek out amp x to see for yourself and if it does sound better?