Why is the price of new tonearms so high

Stiltskin,
Oh yes! Yet more genius, and so like: TOTALLY organic!

Hi Tonywinsc,
SME V guy, ah so. Better treading easy in this here 'value unlimited art gallery' of engineering.

I see we appreciate the same kind of 'muscle' and not only 'arms.

At least I did not have to pay an 'artist's price' for my V, AND it doesn't just use a bend pipe either :-)
A.

:-)
>>> D. in your four points you mention "dynamic balanced design" and "very rigid construction". Would you say the Schroder arm exhibits these traits? <<<

Wat is sis? A leading quesion?
Opening another Pandora’s Box?
A.

Hi Rumpel Stiltskin :-)
now, how can we apply these Roman gutter constructions to the price of new tonearms?
Did they have their resonances sorted, when flushing?

Couldn't we perhaps get some Roman tonearms and have that issue evaluated?

I'm thinking,
Axel

Funny thread that is.
Just now we had: "Why are oldskool tonearm so expensive"
(thread got 'lost' during database cleanup - yes?)
And now this?
Next guy that talks about FR arms again, will get dumped.

Look there are very decent arms for less than what an 'old one' can cost you, else there was no need for a ~ 300 post long thread on that other subject, or?

If you need an arm that needs a compressor, and 'diamonds on the soles of it's shoes.." spend 12k or more.

As the other post mentioned, if you don't want e.g. a 'Breguet' watch
see: http://www.breguet.com/ for 100k plus, a 'Swatch' will also tell the time :-)

Horses for courses, no?

Greetings,
Axel

Hi D.,
>>> In general, the "heavy" tonearms do have plain advantages ..in power (read: vibration emitted from the cartridge during playback) handling..<<<

A question: What about, the higher the mass, the bigger the "acoustic capacitance" leading to a 'smearing' in time of information?

Energy is "stored" longer and released later with higher mass involved. An accepted principal with dynamic drivers, etc. (also note what REGA's Roy Gandy has to say about that regarding HIS arms and decks...)

What say you?
A.

Hi D.
:-):-) thank you, funny how one can disagree, no.

I get, you just also 'sunk' yet another highly regarded tonearm: The Breuer and the derived Brinkmann, right on, I say :-)

Now to this other 'storage item', "the tonearm does not produce any signal" oh yes?
Any exited resonance actually does produce it's own signal, unless D. find this to be otherwise in this physics book also :-)
And PLEASE do not forget the cart signal, e.g. in the case of an MC is amplified by some 10'000x (60dB).
No driver membrane is subject to that, and by the way, it also does not 'produce' the signal it ONLY resonates with it.

What other arms can we 'wipe out' then in favour of the heavy weights?
All new SMEs, all Regas, Origins, Moerchs, even the Dynavectors, etc. etc.
Then all that left is FR, and some others of the old guard?

If you need more mass for a THAT low compliance cart (4cu?) why not blue-tack a penny on the head-shell --- used to work great I'm told :-)

Greetings,
Axel

D. :-) :-)
why, we ARE always good for a laugh.
Have you ever had an 'Empire S1000 ZE/X' in your FR 66?
That would be telling, --- before I go shopping from Schroeder to Brinkman and back to what not.

Now it bedtime, nighty night.
A.

>>> ... the physics that still govern the biggest part of the design has been available for quite a while? <<<

Yes that "?" is well put.
Vibration / mechanical resonance mechanics is one of the more difficult subjects yet.
The Tacoma Bridge would be still standing too, if some years back all was truly understood.
Same applies to other architectural issues relating to earth quakes. Resonance behaviour has come to be better understood only more recently. Most ancient understanding ended with the 'pendulum'... (had no vinyl to play with :-)

Looking at Continuum in this light, they spend plenty of time with multiple regression analysis of vibration and resonance behaviour, so they say.
Before computer models, this stuff was ALL intuition plus experiment.
I don't mean you will not get 'decent' results that way --- but no 'banana' either :-).

Now you look at some old timers, REAL heavy weights (cover of 'Night Fly'...) you see where Continuum could have gotten some ideas to start with... and then added plenty of computer modelling, so they ended up with that banana :-)

All else took a piece of pipe and bend it so as to get the off-set angle, put a 'compass gimble' plus a counter weight.
Some noticed that the tube resonated (too much?) and then stuffed it with balsa wood... all intuitive vibration mechanics.

A.

Henry! your call I guess.
Good German Bier, Wurst, und Brezel :-)
A.

Tonywinsc
y.s.:
>>> Have you ever tried a Koetsu cartridge? <<<

Nope, I'll sure will some day when my pocket agrees. Right now I listen to an Empire S1000 ZE/X-ERD (oldie MM) and it makes more music than any of my previous MCs. Sounding more 'balanced' in my system, than my audio friends Orpheus for 6 grand, that gave me food for thought.

I'd guess the Koetsu Coral would 'mice' the Empire, even in look alone :-)

I'm currently thinking my ML phono-modules might favour MMs over MCs (more musical).
I think MCs (to my ears) like at least one tube in the system. My son has that kind of set-up. Same MC in his system sound better than in mine, using a EAR 864 phono-line-pre, hm.
My system is all SS, so I've become a bit weary of all these 'artistically' priced MCs... too much resolution, too little music.
Of course something 'pretty' never loses attraction, like ZZ Top, 'Looking for some tush...' :-)

Axel

Hi D.
"The world wants to be deceived, so let it be deceived."

... modern day marketing (which incidently is my profession....

So is that by any chance some kind of confession about your 'profession', and what you therefore keep telling us?

Hello Meister D.
"Musing and watching"...

Some bionic rig!
Über motor, über platter, über bearing, über alles...
Add some, über drive belt/string, über cables, über phono-stage,….

Removed yourself 10/10 from the rest of the analogue world out here it seems. "N'oublie pas que tu vas mourir" :-)

This of course might just explain also some of these divergent findings on arm resonances.
High mass platters and floating bearings have their way with resonances, we know.

In fact, it puts your 'comparative' findings and arguments way out yonder.
Not easy to make much sense of it then, with the rest of most all 'commercial' audio and some bit of 'boutique-audio' components.

"Musing and watching" Hm...

Hallo D. , T_bone

>>> Other way of damping a tonearm is heat skrink pipe - large area and good damping. This is an old trick on the SME V (Axel !!) to eliminate its vibration peak towards the bearing (blue-tech works fine too). <<<

Eish, funny, YOU 'FR man' should mention THAT :-)
Let's a take a cart/arm, switch of the phono-pre and then listen running the record.
I don't know the FR from listening (only pics) but any R300, or 9c will happily chirp along to the music that you can easily hear it from the listening place, in fact with the R300 much further.
That is some dead give away about arm resonance (damping?).
Now take a current SME V and ---- you hear NOTHING, until you put your ear VERY close to the arm tube. So, I guess we need no 'socks' with a V then.

Next, still with 'socks', I actually did a test to see what would happen if you 'sock' an arm - the V.
Guess what? The material plastic, rubber, you can now 'hear' as an unusual signature being added to the sound. Amplifiecation at 10 000x has just that effect. (Mess with the arm, and you will hear it)

So, it's that 'effect' that is either to once liking or not, like the ringing of a bell.
Cast iron sound crappy in deed, bronze rather beautiful by comparison.

Last point, where does it go (the resonance?) it dissipates in heat eventually (even without a sock), but arm designers talk of 'sinking' it, and of 'closing of a resonance loop' via arm/mounting/back to main bearing/platter/record/pick-up.
Some maintain, that if this loop is 'disrupted' it will cause 'bad vibrations' i.e. affect the sound negatively.

Could well be the old Romans would object to all this --- thankfully I'm not an arm designer :-)
A.

Hi,
>>> Now if your tonearm or other tonearm needs a wrap IMHO something is wrong with that tonearm or with the tonearm/cartridge combination or even in other link in the audio system chain. <<<

I agree with Raul. Now Raul thought the FR can do with a wrap as I recall, and D. thinks all other's can do with it, since it is a known fact that the SME V is rather too much damped than to little.

Is that your way to fix the FR issue then?

Got low tire pressure, make the other's tires flat -- problem solved :-)

Perrew,
a very good question I say.
My best guess would be: ***a good CD player*** -- no arguments about 'socks' and resonances either :-)

Syntax,
I wonder what's its resonance frequency ---- would it need a 'sock'??

Hi D. :-)
you say:
>>> "- I certainly don't care. I have no questions - at least not in Audio." <<<

Like that sergeant major: "I have no stomach ulcers -- I give them!"

It's good to know, this is how it works.
- Can't hear static vs dynamic VTF? Your system sux :-)
- Can hear FR resonances? Your system sux :-)
- SUT works for you? Your system sux :-)
- Got any audio question? Your system sux :-)
- ...

OK, "What we got here is: failure to communicate..."
A.

Hi T_bone,
gee, my man. Go got that so right, like you'd been doing this for a living! Sir, yes Sir!

Now this 'Hartmann' (Brakemeier?) dude also addressing them "human f#@&ing beings" from high-up his Olympus mountain - elevated demigod of... FR? (F#@&ing Recrutes)

I think you got the drift.
So long it doesn't get boring around here.
A.

Hi D.
did you actually read my post # 130 on the suggested use of "so long so wrong" ?
(I hope I counted # correctly...)

The spring 'grease'(yeak)/damping "something" I actually mentioned.
In fact the stuff is slightly visible squeezing a bit out behind the VTF dial on the SME-V - it's as thick as it gets, and noticeable by the VERY reluctant turning action of that dial.

Be interesting to see what Raul will have to add to it all.

Any comments?
A.

"The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh" :-)
Let's see if he leaves us a bit longer with THAT thread.

Why would ANY participant post here if he has NO question?
Looking for deciples? Wrong venue!

Teres said: ~ the more I learn --- the more questions come about. Thank you for making that quite clear again.

Another wise man said: The more I learn, the more I understand I know NOTHING. (Socrates?)

Mr. Know-it-all is no welcome guest at any gathering, just the way it is.
Inferior we can nicely feel by ourselves, no need for outside help :-(
I think we are posting here, and ask questions to SHARE and not be TOLD, pompously or otherwise.

Greetings,
Axel

Hi Perrew,
thank you, and back to the subject.

When it comes to new tonearms, affordable ones, it seems there is the RB250, 300, plus some already more pricey mods by 'Origin Life' and then what..... ?

How helpful it could be, to have some value-added notions on any other arms, what about the JELCO range?

A lot of these pricey modern arm are 'jewels' absolutely beautifully made --- and come at a jewellers price too.

Looking for a good, down to earth, value/performance arm I'd like to know about some of these.

In this forum, this far, one can take away the opinion that e.g. an SME V is hardly to be mentioned! ~ $5 000 and below is just too unspeakably gauche. No wonder the question was: "Why are the prices so high...?"

Hi D.
your 20 set LP reference is an interesting suggestion --- though it seems grounded in trying to get some form of 'perfection' where it can not be gotten.

When my audio-friend has often a hard time to find consensus listening to the same record / same system as I, gives me the idea it can only get more difficult, not less.

Next, a good product will not be 'sunk' just by some divergent listening impression. (They still make and sell SME arms and others, despite some hefty criticisms, that I do not have to repeat, yes?)

If 'perfection' was the goal we could close down every forum and junk every specification, as we know that the ear has it's own ways.

I think your quest for perfection, where there is only so much of an approximation possible, gets into your way more than it helps, in fact you know this too well!
But like a Sheepdog you can't help your nature, and keep chasing the 'bus' :-)

Now, if I want to verify some listening impressions in the forum and find mine either completely contradicted or affirmed, I have learned something!
This in turn can be synthesised into either a new or different understanding, and so on.

If you say: "I have no questions..." then you are done, finished. Yet, we are never to old not to learn something new.

In some other thread I ask for listening impressions of two carts, based on how they sound in my system.
If someone else hears them differently I have two option:
1) tell him that he is wrong! Well I have my prove or?
2) thank him, and go back maybe with his good suggestion and see what I now will find, and I have learned something.

It's all about information acquisition and synthesis, and NOT about refutations, at least in a forum.

Looking for spreading your one and only truth?
Get a soap box, stand on it, preach, make disciples :-)

Axel
PS: The FR is truly a beautifully machined/manufactured tonearm, no idea what it sounds like.
Probably very nice in my system, since my system sux, as I can not hear any difference between dynamic an static VTF either :-)

Micro Seiki MA-505 ~ between $400 and $700 sound very reasonable, and looks VERY well engineered judged by the pic.

On the other end of the scale -I AM SURE-, what can one say about that 'Reed'?
The question came up before, it is NOT dynamically balanced, yes?
see: http://www.goldenageaudio.com.au/For%20sale/reed%20arm/reed%20tonearm.html

Lastly, and currently (new) available also, the Ortofon RS-309D (12") vs. RS-212D (9")?
That VTA again/still rather primitive, spring in pivot-post and one cap-screw. The dynamic weight adjustment seems rather a pain (no scaling) and very fiddly.
Some noted that the static arm is just as good, in particular the RS-309 (12") and the RS-212 static well I won't say, it might be not too fair.

Now, I'm not planning to one tomorrow but like to get some directions - (synthesised :-)
A.

Now, let's maybe try do a little 1-set LP check and see what will come of it?

Alison Krauss & Union Station 'so long so wrong'
Who does NOT experience sibilants on side two, last (3rd) cut. And then share your 'hardware', not just your tonearm, or?

This LP is being used on another thread with one contributor trying his truly VERY best, pictures of set-up, audio files, the works, to get it right.
See: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1245595534
It could be anything hardware, including resonances / bad arm/cart match?

So before we go to 20 LPs, how about just 1 LP to get an idea?
The album is newly available and very well recorded otherwise.

Axel

D. :-)
>>> Tell me I am wrong....? <<< YOU ARE! (Not again!)
Just read my next post, if they finally get it on.
Nothing EVIL, at all.
A.

Hi Nilthepill
all the below is done with NO anti-skate force applied.

"statically balanced"
1) arm is balanced so the stylus floats above the vinyl (say 150g, re thickness) just without touching it.
2) If scaled/graded counterweight, it is now zeroed, Vertical Tracking Force (VTF) is then applied by counterweight being moved forward according to scale and/or good VTF scale.

"dynamically balanced" =
1) VTF down force loading spring (dial) is set to zero
2) arm is balanced by counter weight as above (static)
3) VTF is applied by down-force spring according to graded scale e.g. SME V, and/or confirmed by VTF measuring scale.

Lastly, not mentioned so far "mixed dynamic and static"
1) halve the VFT is applied with counterweight (static)
2) rest of VTF is added by down-force spring (dynamic)

"Dynamic balanced" is 'supposed' to involve less of the counterweight's inertia. It is 'supposed' to be more accurate when tracking up/down motions of the tone arm i.e. always applying the same force.

"Static balanced" is preferred by some since no spring, which could lead to resonances, is involved. As to the counter weight's inertia: It is actually closer to the arm's pivot = less inertia i.e. smaller lever and for that reason once again preferred by some.

All modern arms using dynamic VTF-loading-springs have them damped thoroughly, usually by lowest viscosity (very thick) silicone fluid (e.g. SME)

Hope this helps,
Axel

Perrew
y.s.:
>>> and therefore there will be less sideways/twirling force and this force is parallel with the force on the needle? <<<

In theory... hm.
But recall, the counter weight is now once more further back by exactly that same amount, mass = force...

The nice thing is, you can use your TT on the moon! And it still works! (using dynamic VTF, it is independent of gravity :-)
A.

Perrew
that pic is rather misleading.
There would **always** be a counterweight, never not spring only... at least I've not come across a spring only arm.
(Can't see how this even could be made to work.)

To make my point look at: http://www.zenn.com.sg/FR64as.JPG

Cheers,
Axel

heck! never *not* spring only = never spring only...

Hey D.
it was our dear friend: Perrew, asking that CW related question, by (I guess) looking at a dismantled arm pic sans CW, OK :-)

Hi D.
please ac you try and answer Perrew's question if you may. Not sure what he is getting at. If there is a CW, it will move, dynamic or static.

Maybe you can answer this more appropriately? (...since Raul is still in bed :-)
Axel

OK, quickly before breakfast is over.
>>> - when the counterweight determines the VTF the tonearm itself is no longer balanced......<<<
Neither is it once VTF with a spring is applied. Just that one un-balancing force in 'gravitational' and the other 'non-gravitational'.

Now take ~ 1g VTF (in the case of a Shure V15 cart, Empire, etc.) and we start splitting a fleas ...hair.
A.
OK, let's see what gives after breakfast :-)

D. very well,
no need for lengthy scientific discourse.

How about some info on the world-wide-web?
If there's something, excellent. If not, I guess we ARE being a bit esoteric then.

It gets also back (for me) to the placement of the pivot, to be EXACTLY at record (surface!) level, plus the CW's mass in line with this pivot, in line with the stylus, in line with the whole mass distribution of it all. Oh, yes Sir!

Nothing wrong with this at all, but which 'arm ACTUALLY will have this all sorted (other then Raul's when it's finished...)?

Like the PERFECTLY proportioned human, according to Leonardo da Vinci...
A.
PS: Don't tell me the FRs go this all sorted... and we lost it all over the last 30 years :-)

D.
actually one good argument for an SME 12", since it now will not touch the record any longer, if going that low.
I must remember that.
AND as you indicate between the lines ---- the cart has to play ball!!!

Cart too tall? Everything moves too high above the record surface (never mind 1/10mm) of cart suspension / cantilever change(s).

It once again give me a clue about all this mysterious synergy business.
A.

Ah so, "Herman der Cherusker Koenig, who had led the Germanic tribes to defeat the Roman legions in the Teutoburg Forest in 9 AD"

Now, .... methinks those Latins*) had more-betta watch out :-)

I guess that thread will 'chill-out' on it's own, we shall see.

A.
*)The Latins were an Indo-European people of the Italic branch.... etc. just to make quite sure.

Hi All,
does the world need yet another tonearm, I ask?
Me, - I'm not so sure actually.

But here a few point I took note of:

We were getting our knickers in a twist over dynamic vs. static arm balance (all know by now what this is, yes?).

Along comes the innocent-man talking about a uni-pivot arm. Most of all, that ALL the best arms are uni-pivots - ha, hallo!
And nobody even raised a flag?!
Since we all have listened by now to the apparent 'must have' of dynamic balance ---- show me a uni-pivot with dynamic VTF!
THAT, is a contradiction in terms, and so the best arms (uni-pivot) are now fine sans dynamic balancing??

In fact, even a knife-bearing = pivoted (but not gimbled, like a compass) can NOT use dynamic balancing. The spring action will want to lift the arm off the bearing(s), and make it rattle.

As to the most talked about and therefore = best arms by deduction = uni-pivot --- Anti Skate is almost as problematic too.
The Skating force is not equal from begining to the end of a record, so any Anti-Skate is yet again a sort of compromise. With a uni-pivot it has the tendency to tilt the arm i.e. affect best chosen azimuth.

So then we can carry on by adding magnet stabilizers like AudioCraft and Graham, or add more pivot points like a 4Point Kuzma, but dynamic balancing --- no go!

So are we saying these arms "the most talked about" are also sub-optimal?
I really don't know, but it would suggest some designers are truly busy wasting their time with faulty design principals.

To be complete, all those 'string suspended' arms would of course also fall into the 'sub-optimal', as NO dynamic balance can/aught to be applied there also.

Funny thing is, those arms were all tested and found to sound really very good --- now what?

Axel

D. :-)
didn't know you could get THAT romantic.
Very nice, very German too, either shoot them or love them.
Schiller 'Die Raeuber'...

Syntax,
:-) very very well put, not that any audio mag would want to print it though...
But as you mentioned, it would make the audio-word stop turning ---- end of beautiful delicious fantasies, not nice.

There is this funny thing (methinks) that women listen to music, and men like to listen to equipment (sound).

Re.: Phantom, and SME mount --- would almost suggest some synergy, does it?

That optimum "D. arm", more-betta has only 1 set of connections, at the cart - else it will start competing with that Phantom's SEVEN! And so much for signal integrity, or?
No one seems to mention such 'basics' anymore, is that already all part of the common fantasy?

Yes, some excellent discourse on the subject of the defenders of 'tonearms-of-the-later-days'.

The one tribe that was missing for my me, are the 'Allemannen'. Why the French actually call the Germans: Allemands.

If I recall correctly, they didn't even need an ex-Roman general to keep the Latins out. They whacked them badly in 259 AD.
These then known as Barbarians were much feared, as fierce and well organised opponents.

There is of course also lots more to it, as is to tonearms!

Now, Thorens, Brinkmann, Breuer and EMT, ALL come out of this former tribal area of the 'Allemannen'! :-)

Now most all of it is Euro-Zone today (some of Switzerland is also Allemannisch i.e. German speaking, -> Breuer) and might explain also: "Why the price of new tonearms is so high!

A.

Hi D. --- 201!
Will you be planning to stick to "Pierre Lurné on Analogue Thoughts" geometry inputs, I ask?

The one thing with ALL arms that I cannot recall, be ONE that actually would practice those apparently most important notions.

We spoke about it before, but all I recall was, - using my own words: "Got the cap, got the T-shirt..."

So, either those principals are geometrically correct, and by that token you would ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO apply them, or it be the first time you'd deviate from your path of the ultimate tonearm-truth --- "the Via Apia straight to the centre Rome.."

Would you care to comment, without subterfuges or other deflections, -- lest that whole discourse starts to smell a lot like new-style marketing (at least to me).

D.
y.s.:
>>As you know - I do not share Lurne's point of view.
Maybe Raul does.<<

Thank you making that quite clear. Must have missed that point last time round. Now what's THAT mean....?
A shortcut? A new geometry? A new ...?

I can go back to rest my case, yet another 'non-compliant' item.
Oh, well.
A.

D.
>>>there is no such thing ever as a "new geometry".<<<

Geometry in the going sense = Euclidean Geometry, yes?
Now, you just do like your absolutisms, don't you :-)

Nver heard of: János Bolyai, a Hungarian engineer and army officer, one of at least three inventors of non-Euclidean geometry...
Just for the record.
A.

Raul,
you more better watch it now.
The man has the best tonearm, best woman, best system, best ears, best education, best audio knowledge, best superlatives... well.
No questions asked, "dance like a butter fly, sting like a bee.." Rumble in the jungle next? :-)

Where can we set up the boxing ring?
A.

Perrew:
ain't blond, ain't Swedish, ain't qualifyin' my man :-)
An' than we havn't' been talking about dat geometry thing either yet.
It's all in dat geometrical here weight distribuition, man!
A.

Hi T_Bone,
let me pick a small _bone, say Chicken_ not a T_bone :-)

>>> Occam's Razor would suggest...<<<
"One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything"

I think your scenario is already too conspiracy flavoured for Ockham.

So, what we have here, are two VERY competitive individuals that just can't contain themselves?

I'd got at times to the point, were it passed some others' natural comfort-zone.

In deed, pushing past comfort-zones can be at times educational of sorts. Opening Pandora's box ('can of worms') and then only looking into the same 'can' over-and-over, alas looks a bit more like compulsive-obsessive. Also sometimes called 'over-motivation'.

I do hope your conspiracy theory is not the case, and that Ockham once more got it right :-)
A.

"Quod erat demonstrandum in realitas mobilis versus modelus in spiritus ?"

Which was to be demonstrated in actual motion (real life), compared to a mental model (i.e. theoretical only))?

Latin can be handy, but mostly in legalistic situations --these days...
Are we now getting ready to go in the dock over: moment, and mass of inertia (effective mass)?

It makes for a degree of interesting and slightly confusing reading, yet we seem no iota closer to the 'true' sonic effects of gravitational vs. spring force VTF...

Wo hängt denn jetzt der Hammer?
A.
PS: AND cart compliance must be part of the equation, I say.

Hi,
excellent maths no doubt.
Let's look at some practical part of it all then.

1) Is the **effective** mass of an arm increased if the counter weight it moved further away from the pivot bearing?
(I think so, because the mass / moment is increased)

2) If a spring is used for VTF, the CW is further back from the fulcrum as the spring provides the down force and the CW only the arm balance.
What is the effect, if assumption of 1) is correct?

3) If static down force is used, the CW is closer to the pivot/fulcrum, the mass moment should therefore be reduced. What is the effect as compared to 2)?

Inertia has of course ONLY an effect if acceleration is present, and with any tonearm particularly riding a 'taco warp'.
Incidentally, I find the type of warp lifting a smaller area from the start-wax (~ 1" into the record) more common and more radical in vertical acceleration, plus the one that actually pushed in the (still soft?) start-wax for ~ 1/8" causing VERY nasty lateral acceleration.

This leads me to think that lower accelerated mass (effetive mass?), plus higher compliance be the better solution to this kind of problem.
But I still can not make the connection to the 'dynamic VTF' being of any advantage, since (given 1)'s assumption is right) the accelerated mass of the same arm with only using static VTF be somewhat lower.

Note: SME quotes, the V arm's effective mass 10 - 11 gr. (depending where the CW is positioned...)
Axel

Mark,
y.s.:
>>> ... your last point is where things get interesting.<<<

OK, that is where everything then would get 'relative' --due to a cart's compliance. (Never mind the carts particular damping 'scheme', MCs in particular)

B U T we still have not hammered this nail all the way in where 'dynamic' vs. 'static' balancing is concerned.
Would even THAT become a function of the cart's compliance and damping behaviour?
Could one cart sound better with dynamic and some other better with static balance?

Your comment on this might be interesting in deed.

Axel

Hi Mark,
y.s:
>> Not going to go there.<<< :-) SIR, yes Sir!
And one wise decision methinks...

Thanks for the 'dynamic' vs. 'static' input also.
I think it's just a convenience if you can set VTF with a correctly graded dial (save $$$ for a force gauge :-)

Though some say, that if you can't hear the difference it's due to your system's short comings.
Then so be it, and yet more room for continuous improvement.
Axel
PS: Klappe zu, Affe tot!