I never felt the need to buy the most expensive cables just because they were that, quite to the contrary over the last 20 years, and still today. I've been through more than 10 brands that I can remember from entry level to the best my ears could hear and that I could afford at that point in time (not always where I am now price-wise, I can assure you...), then sell everything off, go to another brand I liked the sound of, usually laterally or a few levels down from where I was to experiment and learn while I was looking for 'the sound' I was targeting but I've never put a cable purchase in front of a move for the next/right amp, pre-amp, DAC, Transport or speaker.
MikeL, Dave_b, Melbguy1, Jmc, and others who have put objective thoughts into the thread....."thank you!"
Dave_b: Great thoughts on the 'sweet spot' in manufacturers' line up...definitely agree with you there.
20 years ago and many days since, I was and in some ways still am the ultimate skeptic regarding cable and component purchases; I don't think the most expensive is necessarily the best by any means. I also still hope for that ‘magic brand’ of cables, components, etc…that would give me what i hear today while costing far less, and give me the ability to simplify and cost-conserve/recoup on the cost side of the equation; that hope aside, I’ve not found it yet but i still read alot weekly looking for it :-)
I also think there is ridiculous mark-up in high-end audio by many, not all manufacturers and I also believe there are ridiculous levels of 'hype' regarding manufacturers who only seem to bring out more and more price threshold-breaking gear, speakers, cables, etc...versus developing that sweet spot in the line to the fullest extent for the more frequently occurring purchasers. There is also little value to the sycophantic following that often permeates certain threads regarding 'the next uber offering...' that also happens to be the most expensive option and when you read closely enough, you’ll note that price is noted far more than actual detailed facts about that component, speaker or cable’s performance.
All this may be hard to believe I know given the cost of my system as it exists today which is alot to some, and far from alot, or the highest, to others. It's all the result of a lot of hard work and experimentation, questioning and doubting, taking steps back to re-think and question, scrimping, saving, etc...over the years. It, and the cables in it are alot farther in so many ways including price, than I thought I'd ever be able to, or willing to go to, in order that I would achieve the sound I was looking for.
The most important topic is how things sound when it is all said and done and is the owner happy; that's relative for each person and in some ways it's none of anyone's damned business (;-) where they choose to spend their money . Put another way, what does it matter what somebody else spends anyway????? Last I checked, noone is going to work for someone else/me, dealing with the bullsh^&, stress, expectations, etc.. and sending them/me money for their audio, car, house/other purchases & bills…where I come from that means the first person has little/nothing to say about how that money is spent by the person who actually has worked hard to make it.
Ah…grateful for a nice calm & peaceful Sunday morning in the audio world :-) !!! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) |
We all have a twisted sense of the word fun in one way, shape or form i suspect :-) and I'd also guess we are all sufficiently wound up for another day at this point!
Overall though, great dialogue all...there is no right or wrong or taking sides really IMHO; it's all about what should make one happy and get us closer to hearing realistic music relative to our system goals and the direction we've chosen for our systems (and frequently change as we are an impatient lot to say the least...).
Have a great day everyone! My goal for the day is to hit play on the rig far more than I type on this damned MacBook for work and audio purposes (ah,...if only!). |
No doubt....there is a lot to be achieved with different (and possibly better) choices of components, speakers, cables, etc...not necessarily the more/most expensive of each. The biggest problem I see is generally that someone will come out and say "you aren't really experiencing great sound..." or "you are really missing out if...." (you don't have what I have....) in any given category. That's all horse^&$% frankly...there are many great offerings out there that make people happy. I've never understood that really but then again, many of us don't shill for other factions or manufacturers!
Back to part of my post above....what does it really matter what someone spends their hard-earned money on as long as they are happy???? But then again, there are people in the world who would have us all categorized into nice and convenient little groups and boxes/labelled (akin to Brave New World, Divergent, etc.., etc.., etc..., dictate how we think, what we believe, what we wear, etc.....) based upon their assessment that their view of the world/society is the right and best one...
Calvinj: Ditto on the ROTFLMFAO aspect of the thought that Mike L's room just has to be missing something without a full loom of Tara GME! Guess I'm missing out too since my Kool-Aid glass is friggin' empty(!) , oh well,...guess I'll survive :-) |
And agreed,...we are all friggin' nuts anyway! |
"Voice of Reason...", yup, the voices in my head made me choose cables that gave me the sound i wanted that weren't designed by MB...... |
Audiolabrynth: saw your question on the Tara thread asking about what all my system is composed of in total; it's posted here under All-Out-Assault under my userID. Please feel free to check it out and also please (several of us have suggested this on various threads), please do the same for your system including pics. Thanks! |
Good comments earlier in the thread about personal preferences, music listened to, sonic signature desired and system synergy. All of this is so purely subjective 90+% of the time that I think we all MAY forget that from time to time. There are alot of great cables out there costing less as well as more. I would love to find cables at lower prices that give me the sound I'm looking for and regardless what's already been spent, I already have by some measure due to 2 reasonable dealers and 3 manufacturers who pack a hell of a lot of punch in their cables at a given price point when there are cables out there that cost 2, 3, 4, 5+ times more that claim to deliver the same thing. Believe me,...I never set out years ago thinking I'd have to allocate high-end component-level budget numbers to cable purchases.... |
" have often said that talking about sound is largely worthless given the variety of tastes, rooms, etc. What I have said about XXXXX would be basically limited my ears, room, taste in music, and whether one likes to be present at the recording or rather to listen to nice music...."
Definitely agree and see your points; it's all conditional and involves a lot of variables. Human beings tend to want to boil things down to "X is better than Y" which is virtually impossible in many less-complicated categories let alone Audio Cabling! |
dynaquest: This statement that attempts to paint a broad stroke characterization of all audiophiles as weak-minded, pliable, easily fooled, etc...and somehow enforce your view of the world and your agenda as a truth that must apply to all is simply not true. From my side I can personally recount 3 times in the last 11 years alone where (1) I ripped out an entire loom of a highly-thought of brand of expensive power cords, went back to stock cords and determined the stock cords were more natural sounding and that as the loom of pcs had grown, a mistake had been made that resulted in accumulated house sound. Same with 2 different iterations of a combination of speaker cables and interconnects from 2 different high-end cable manufacturers at various points. Each time I either returned to stock PCs or to very low-cost interconnects and speaker cables. There were things the low cost approach cables did not give me that I determined to live without and many that I did hear that I liked.
I've also cut into or unwrapped more than a few cables in my time to see what's inside and realize there are a few brands out there that are simply "F-O-S!!!" and pulling one over on many of us music lovers.
I only 'went back' because I happened to be given an interconnect, a speaker cable and a power cord from one manufacturer that are not inexpensive, but not amongst the strata of audio cables that simply cannot explain their prices in terms of any reasonable markup on cost of goods plus cost of manufacture (and R&D). I stayed with the brand in question as they survived real A/B testing (double-blind) and truly deliver what they say with a high-end, resolving system and a good pair of ears on the receiving end.
I'm not here to give examples of the "B.S." cable choices I've experienced, nor am I going to give the names of the brands that I ripped out of the system or the higher end brand I wound up going moving to in order to promote them. Like another poster, I am results-oriented; I would never have agreed to go back on the 'spend more/pray for good results" merry go round if I had not heard truly remarkable differences when the cables in question in place and not been fooled in the double-blind testing when they were not. My only purpose here is to tell you that you are wrong about many audiophiles, including several I know well and myself that have all walked similar roads making mistakes and moving past them in various ways.
Please post your system and share more detail on your journey and your basis for your claims.
All this aside,....Have a Happy New Year!
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...because sometimes it makes a difference....
Exactly. If someone cannot hear a difference then they should not use anything more than stock wire in their setup and be happy with it. For those situations where differences can be heard, those people should get the cables they like and be happy with them. |
Guys...this is a hobby. Noone has to prove anything to anyone else scientifically or otherwise. I like what I have and love the way it sounds...noone has to believe or do as anyone else does.
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"Clearly, the big fat stiff cables are making up for other deficiences in other areas. "
Sorry to disappoint you but no, not the case 🤣! |
" Because they are scientifically illiterate. People who fall for "audiophile grade" cables (or even worse, for example, "directional fuses") and similar audio trinkets are in the same league with anti vaxxers, flat earthers, lunar landing deniers, GMO panic mongers and 9/11 truthers. A bunch of sad but dangerous fantasists."
Sad to say, also not the case here ("scientifically illiterate", etc...) and I suspect with others on the forum who happen to have heard differences between stock cables/zip-cord and the cables they now own.....
I’ve posted this before and will say it again for clarity,...this is a hobby, people are free to believe and do as they will. If you don’t hear differences then don’t buy cables and furthermore, don’t insult people in broad stroke manners just because some of us don’t believe as you do....
This statement and many other similar ones on this thread and parallel threads that attempt to paint a broad stroke characterization of all audiophiles who happen to find cables make a difference, as weak-minded, pliable, easily fooled, etc...and somehow enforce your view of the world and your agenda as a truth that must apply to all is simply not true. From my side I can personally recount 3 times in the last 11 years alone where (1) I ripped out an entire loom of a highly-thought of brand of expensive power cords, went back to stock cords and determined the stock cords were more natural sounding and that as the loom of pcs had grown, a mistake had been made that resulted in accumulated house sound. Same with 2 different iterations of a combination of speaker cables and interconnects from 2 different high-end cable manufacturers at various points. Each time I either returned to stock PCs or to very low-cost interconnects and speaker cables. There were things the low cost approach cables did not give me that I determined to live without and many that I did hear that I liked.
I’ve also cut into or unwrapped more than a few cables in my time to see what’s inside and realize there are a few brands out there that are simply full of shite and pulling one over on many of us music lovers.
I only ’went back’ to after-market cables because I happened to try interconnects, power cords and/or speaker wire that helped my system sound better (to me) and (for me) more natural, musical and enjoyable.
I’m not here to give examples of the "B.S." cable choices I’ve experienced, nor am I going to give the names of the brands that I ripped out of the system or the higher end brand I wound up going moving to in order to promote them. Like another poster, I am results-oriented; I would never have agreed to go back on the ’spend more/pray for good results" merry go round if I had not heard truly remarkable differences when the cables in question were put in place My only purpose here is to tell you that you are wrong about many audiophiles, including several I know well and myself that have all walked similar roads making mistakes and moving past them in various ways. We are not uneducated, unscientific or any other negative label you want to ascribe.
There seems to be a downturn/trend on Audiogon over the last couple of years and this thread and others like it which are indicative of the moving away from people helping each other to the best of their ability to a forum where people like to stir the pot, criticize others and hide behind their monikers. IMHO, not good for the hobby and for relations in general, but hey, what do I know, I like my cables and how my system sounds so I must be wrong? |
Thank you....very much appreciate your positive comments.
To those who don't believe cables are worth the money, make a difference, etc....I appreciate your opinions as well and try to learn from them questioning my choices in the future with a more critical eye (ears and brain actually). The only issue I have is the apparent need to bash and insult others broadly or individually. |
akg_ca: Well said and quoted!!!!! If this thread and few others were tailed off, that would be a good things. Now, I shall commence to do my part :-) and stop responding (for now!) |
