I’m going to place my bet that the issue is a combo of nature of the recording combined with more distortion from amp during louder or more challenging sections of Mahler for example when the pipe organ sucks the amp dry or louder brass sections. I will be surprised if it’s a vibration thing but you never know until you try. Can be multiple factors like that combined and any improvement might help. Power conditioning would be the other area that is worth having a handle on for smoother sound and less fatigue. Also physical isolation of digital components and power amps from the rest is always worth a try. No ICs running alongside power cords? Little details like that.
Why do all Mahler recordings seem too bright?
Yes - I may be exaggerating but I haven’t yet found any recordings of his symphonies that properly balance the extra treble energy that are often part of the dynamic swings. Part of the problem may be that I’m not sure I yet actually “like” Mahler’s music though there are moments that are exquisite. But, I can’t get through a whole piece because the recordings hurt my ears.
As a side note - I have been on both sides of a microphone - having been a musician in the past and also having recorded/mixed a number of orchestral concerts at a performing arts center. Pre-pandemic I would go to orchestral concerts regularly. So - I do have at least some reference.
I have some recordings (they were given to me) that are positively unlistenable (a DG recording of his 5th may be singularly the worst recording I’ve heard).
I thought the hi res versions of San Francisco by MTT might be the ticket. While better, they still seem too bright and harsh to me.
Perhaps it’s my system that’s too bright, or perhaps something else is going on but I’ve plenty of other classical music that sounds better. We’ll recorded jazz and acoustic, too.
Of course I can find poor recordings in any genre, but I’d welcome recommendations from my fellow forumites of some Mahler recordings that I might try. I’d love to be able to listen to the closing moments of the 2nd at reasonable volume - without cringing.
Showing 6 responses by mapman
Btw offloading low end from mains to a sub can help with any speaker even large more full range ones because the bass is where an amp works exponentially harder with lower frequency and excluding the lower frequencies allows the amp to work much less harder which always results in lower distortion. So a powered sub or two with active crossover might still be just what the doctor ordered. Your 100w/ch amp would likely never break a sweat with a sub handling the lowest octave or two instead. |
Here is a good read about value of adding subs: https://ohmspeaker.com/news/for-optimum-sound-how-many-subs-and-where-do-you-put-em/ Btw I picked up the entire Bernstein Mahler symphony series on CD about a year back somewhere on eBay new for about $12. Best deal ever! Can vouch for fact that these recordings are not inherently bright. Streaming Symphony #2 now as we speak. This thread reminded me it’s been too long! I do rip all my CDs and stream them only for playback and I find that to be a very robust way to help assure quality at the source with my digital recordings Yes well that was one of the big things about Ohm Fs ie being able to drive them well on the day. It’s a piece of cake these days with the newer Ohm Walsh models and newer amp technology like Class D. Oh right those are bigger Kefs right? Should be up to the task with the right amplification I would think
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Yes it’s always hard to say where a problem comes from with gear one is unfamiliar with but if brightness is persistent throughout the recording and not just the louder peaks that are the problem could just be a matter of some tweaking. Again hard to say. Power conditioning might help. Hard to say with absolute certainty. Do you have a smartphone? If so download a sound level app like decibel and use that to measure spls during peaks or other times the brightness occurs. That will help establish if the issue correlated to the spl peak levels or not Adding a sub or two is almost always a strong option to consider with any monitor speakers, especially for large scale classical symphonic recordings. . They do not extend flat down to the lowest octave guaranteed. Filling that in alone adds balance and may helping . Using an active crossover to offload bass from mains to subs allows main amp to not have to work as hard which always lowers distortion. Smaller monitors alone are never optimal for any large symphonic works. Ok perhaps, but not optimal. |
Btw I have KEF ls50 metas with a Klipsch sw308 sub in a smaller room running off Bel Canto ref1000m monoblocks amps (class d 500 w/ch). Fronted by Audio Research tube preamp. Does Mahler well at modest volumes. The little Kefs are still the bottleneck in that they are just not big enough to deliver at very high spls over 90 db or so. Then I have same front end driving Big Ohm F5s with 12” Walsh driver in next larger room. That takes the lid off. Mahler can be played and enjoyed easily at concert level volumes. Just for comparison. Have heard kef r3s and believe those to be a step above ls50s in terms of absolute SPL levels. |
What is the source for these in your system? Digital or vinyl? Good recordings of Mahler symphonies are a challenge on the grand scale of things. Lots of things going on and big dynamic shifts and crescendos. That is the unique thing about them compared to many. Lots can go wrong anywhere from source to speakers. Could easily be multiple factors. Need more info to be able to properly assess case by case. If your setup isn’t cutting it I would seek out a dealer who can demo a system that can. Then you are in a position to assess what’s different and what might to done to correct it.
off the cuff, I love those KEFs but they are small and will be challenged to deliver live symphony SPL levels with something like Mahler #2. Also 100 watts on the amp is not bad but probably also not enough to do the whole job cleanly with those speakers with the most challenging large scale symphonic recordings. Off the cuff I would advise more power (to better handle dynamic peaks) or more efficient speakers (most likely a good bit larger) and add a powered sub or two to the KEFs and cross over at 60 hz or above to remove the low end from the small monitors. This assumes your source phono setup is up to the task. If digital less of an issue there, more personal preference addressed by choice of dac. A good Mahler symphony recording will separate the men from the boys. Everything needs to be going exactly right with your hifi. There is perhaps no tougher challenge for a hifi to reproduce. if your hifi does Mahler well, it will do most anything. It’s a very good litmus test! we’re it me, first thing I would try is throwing a good quality Class D amp at the problem. 250 watts per channel or more. Very feasible these days without breaking the bank . Most Class D amps soft clip like a tube amp and that alone might help. Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving. |