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  3. 151721-486

Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...😱
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then there’s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ’cheap’ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus 🤯🙏🏽

I’ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations 😃

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ’blows my mind’...which is hard to do when I’ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables 🤯
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
I’ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now I’ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ’killing’ it a bit more 🥴😥
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ’listening sessions’ 🤪
But failing this.....I can’t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
128x128halcro

Showing 13 responses by lewm

lewm
12,537 posts
 
That expletive is really hard to pronounce.  What language is it?  I don't blame you for your consternation at being asked to pay $600 to diagnose a problem in your preamplifier, but could that be because SS are not necessarily expert with electronics per se and would need to farm out the work, pay some third party at his retail, and then make a profit over that amount?  I think that could be the explanation.  In the area of cartridge manufacture and repair, we are lucky to have both SS and vdH at our service.  If you have a problem with electronics in future, I recommend Bill Thalmann at Music Technology in Springfield, VA.  Very capable, honest as they come, a nice guy, and reasonable charges.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
Suppose that you or I could inspect that cartridge prior to purchase. What could we learn by inspecting it? Apart from the fact that we could see if it had a cantilever and a stylus mounted on the cantilever, I don’t think we could learn much else. You would need to play it on your own system, in order to have any confidence that you are getting what you would pay for.Of course, that is unlikely to be possible. So, if I were you, I would keep my powder dry.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
Been listening a lot to my Dynavector 17D3 cum diamond cantilever.  I "inherited" this cartridge due to the passing of one of my best friends and partners in audiophilia.  At the time he bought it (new), I believe he paid about $800-$900, and it was considered a sort of best buy among LOMCs.  I have mounted it in my FR64S on the TT101, using a CF headshell.  It feeds a modified Manley Steelhead which drives my Beveridge system. It hadn't been used by him, if it was ever used (because he was already unwell when he bought it), for at least 7-8 years, and at first I was not overwhelmed with the sound.  It was just OK. But after putting a few hours on it, wow it's quite nice.  Very nice tingly realistic treble. Very detailed yet non-fatiguing over all. Dynavector is one of a few old line audio companies that give you value for dollar on a consistent basis.  I have no idea what fraction of the goodness is attributable to the diamond cantilever.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
Per Frogman's last post, J Carr has delivered more than one treatise on this forum about the relationships among the parts of a cartridge.  I'm sure he knows more about the art of building a cartridge than any of us.  From his writings, I drew the conclusion that the science of the materials used is only one part of the equation, as Frogman also says.  It's how the parts work together to produce a coherent audio signal that counts the most.  Some swear by certain kinds of magnet vs certain other kinds, for example.  Coils of silver wire vs copper wire or silver/gold or silver-plated copper.  It's all been done at least once by somebody.  If there was only one good answer to the puzzle, we'd have a lot of very similar cartridges from which to choose.  As anyone knows, we are miles away from that condition.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
Germans don’t really need a sense of humor when interacting with non Germans. So many of their words already sound funny to outsiders.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
Dear Nandric, After mastering Australian, did Mr Andreoli ever actually learn to speak English?
lewm
12,537 posts
 
Whenever a Tyrannosaurus was nearby, the needle would jump out of the groove with every step the T Rex took.  That's when the idea of turntable isolation took root.  But the SPU could take the abuse.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
If moving mass is THE factor, as you say, Mijo, then MI or IM cartridges would rule. Actually I could live with only that type but I’d miss LOMC and MM. Raul is the mentor who made me the pantheist I am today, where cartridges are concerned. Thanks, Raul.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
I think you missed my point or are completely ignoring it. My point was only that in a moving magnet or moving iron cartridge, the coil does not move. That was a response to your earlier statement that moving magnet cartridges were inferior to moving coil cartridges having something to do with the mass of the coil. I think you know, and I know, that that is not correct. In a moving magnet or moving iron cartridge, the mass of the coil has no effect on the moving mass. And that’s all I meant to say.

As to coil wire, isn’t it odd that there has never been an MM or MI cartridge, to my knowledge, that was marketed on the basis of its having a copper vs silver vs gold coil?
lewm
12,537 posts
 
Raul, the accepted rationale for why low output moving coil cartridges sound better than high output moving coil cartridges has to do with the moving of the coil itself. In other words lower effective mass. However, that same reasoning does not apply to moving magnet or induced magnet cartridges, where of course the coil isn’t moving at all. So do you still think the amount of coil in the wire of a moving magnet cartridge is a major determinant of its sound quality? If so, due to inductance? At any rate it is not due to moving the mass of the coil.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
+1 for chakster.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
Short cantilever means the arc traversed by the stylus in response to the groove is shorter than with a longer cantilever, which means the net coil or magnet velocity is reduced for a given deflection of the stylus, which means a proportionate reduction in voltage output for a given magnet and coil structure.  And that all is also dependent upon where the fulcrum is located relative to the coil (MC) or magnet (MM) at the other end of the cantilever.
lewm
12,537 posts
 
I've got a virtually new Dynavector 17D3, with its diamond cantilever.  As someone else pointed out regarding the D2 version, it never did cost a fortune, and in my opinion it is great value for money.  The D3 was available from DV until only recently when it was replaced by the 17DX.  Does the DX also have a diamond cantilever? (I am too lazy to look it up.)  Anyway, the point is that having a diamond cantilever is per se no excuse for an exorbitant price.  DV have been doing it for decades at the mid-price level.  Tongue in cheek, I might wonder whether the D3 could be so "inexpensive" because of the short 17mm length of its cantilever.  But I doubt it.  What we are seeing is the rapid growth of hype in the world of cartridge making. (Not that having a diamond cantilever is not a good thing.)
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