Rushton,
Thank you for your thorough evaluation of this new product.
I'm sure you can understand many of us are very curious, and perhaps I sort of have an apprehension as well, thinking about direct contact of the Delrin Wand to the surface of the vinyl, and worry about the possibility of groove damage?
I think of this even more, considering the slot as you say is narrower, and because of this, greater venturi-suction effect is created, and perhaps greater friction between the two surfaces?
I can understand the description of an extremely smooth surface of the Wand, but wonder-visualize as well, the possibility of contaminants being wedged in between the mating surfaces?
Sorry to sound like a "Doubting Thomas", I do know that Walker makes some very outstanding, cutting edge products. I assume this should be another from the great minds. Mark |
I can get an understanding of a re-adjustment of the Wand Tower Height, per Walker's instructions, which I read at Elusive Disc, but what isn't clear, is mention of properly aligning the Slot in Delrin Tube, so that it faces straight down towards the record.
With that being said, and for the cost that Walker is charging, which is not at all cheap for a piece of tubular Delrin, with slot, why didn't Walker then cut the proper locating Slot in the Delrin Tube End, mating correctly with the locating Pin in the VPI Wand Tower?
Probably no biggie, I know, it doesn't take a Physics Major to probably align the Tube correctly.
Maybe I should ask Lloyd Walker this question? Mark |
I meant no disrespect to you Rushton, and again, I appreciate the time you have taken to give a thorough account of this product.
I still stand by my feeling that this product should've been more reasonably priced. $80 is a lot of Maracas for a tube of Delrin. R+D shouldn't be a factor for overcharging on an item like this. let's face it, R+D didn't cost Lloyd $1,000's on this one, in fact I doubt more than $50.
$40 would've been a bit more realistic, and I'm sure, still an ample amount of profit. Is Lloyd getting "greedy"?
Of course, VPI themselves could just as easily come to market with one similar, they are thier Machines.
Your suggestion of making my own is a good one, I have the resources, and the means to do this. Of course too, if I go to market with a clone, who will buy it? It won't of course have Lloyd's magical name on it, or carry the prestige, even though it might be every bit as good.
Again Rushton, and all, thank you for your responses. Mark |
I am not a user of the Vortex, others here can perhaps offer better advice. I'm trying to visualize the whole affair, and will try offering help through a good mechanical background.
I suspect that tower height adjustment, with the Delrin Locking Collar will be critical, in that the Wand doesn't come down too far under vacuum suction, thus causing excessive force upon the record.
From what others have said here, and the reason perhaps why Lloyd has complimented this product with Rubber O-Rings, is that the LP will actually sit ever so slightly above the Platter, and as the Wand goes down upon the LP, the LP supposed to actually come up towards the wand, to "meet" the wand, and thus by doing this, it is not the Wand's downforce pressure, but the LP actually coming up to meet the Wand regulating the degree of pressure, and by this, this must insure a certain level of adhesion-friction between the two which is not overly excessive.
Anymore friction-force between the two will no doubt result in possibly marring LP's, and may be also the cause of fluids being left behind as well?
Perhaps an accurate measurement of your slot, will let others help, as they relay to you what they find.
Again, I haven't used one, and may be in error with my thoughts, but I have probably hit the nail on the head with my above comments. Mark |
JB, Please take the time for a couple of seconds to take a good ruler to the slot, and measure the slot length. Rushton can perhaps help, by confirming the slot size is the same (or not). Ya never know, yours could be slightly short, and this of course would make the differences. Again, hope this helps. Mark |
JB, Something sounds wrong to me, as I just took a measurement of my stock VPI Acrylic Wand's slot, and the measurement is exactly 100mm, or 4", which ever you prefer to use. And the measurement of the origin of the slot, measured from the outside perimeter of round base collar of the Wand Assembly is exactly 1/8".
So, with that being said, something sounds awfully wrong, in that the slot sounds as if it was cut much too short at 8cm (which is 80mm). That's 20mm shorter in length than the VPI Wand Slot.
Provided Lloyd made an exact clone of the VPI Wand dimensioanlly, but just from a different material (Delrin), and a narrower cut slot minus the velvet lips, I honestly don;t see why the slot should be 20mm shorter? Sounds more like you got a wand more suited for 78rpm Shellacs?
We'll wait for Rushton to chime in with his findings, but you may wish to as well, shoot an email off to the folks at Walker, they'll definitely know what's cookin.
Mark |
Is there such a thing as an "I-Net BS Eliminator Spray"? If so, I think this thread needs a thorough "hosing down". |
Firstly, I'd like saying that I have respect, and admiration for Lloyd to try to bring improvements to products in this market for us end users. Even though you may not respond Lloyd, I hope at least you will read this, or that your aquaintances will pass this onto you, that my hat is off to you for your attempts.
I did have good interest in this product, I of course own a VPI 16.5, and have interest when there's a way to squeeze every last bit of performance from it.
This product though, seemed to be plagued by myths from the get go. Just two days ago, I read a description by MusicDirect, claiming the VRT Wand doesn't even touch the Record's surface in operation. Just too much confusion from end users, and the dealer network of what is fact, and what is fiction.
The evidence I found of an 80mm slot, versus the original 100mm slot by VPI just doesn't make any logical sense to me. How is this then faster, when a person has to go back, and take towel, or Kleenex to pick up at the LP's extremes with what the VRT Wand has left on the LP sounds like a unworthy trade off to me.
Drawing Bar Vacuum is not the 16.5's shortcoming. The Motor VPI placed in that machine in fact could substitute for a Vacuum Motor in a Tornado Floor Scrubbing Machine, and in fact that's what many of these machines use, an Eletek-Lamb Rotary Vacuum Motor.
It is Volume of fluid pick up that is needed, not a higher suction rate, which is more than adequate. Any more probably has the fluids actually drying before the Wand can pick them up. This in turn will actually leave more deposits on the LP, than successfully remove.
Harry intended the Vacuum Wand Tower to be automatically adjustable to any thickness-weight of LP. It sounds like the VRT Wand ingorned this design parameter, and by being so touchy to get properly adjusted by an ebd user, it actually goes against the proper operation, and intended design of the VPI RCM's.
Other firm beliefs I have, it that cross contamination is something that is over-hyped, that the VPI Wand, and it's Velvet Strips are a substantial cause of this. I'd truly like seeing microscopic analysis of this.
And yes, I understand the operation of other machines, like the Loricraft, in that the Vacuum nozzle does not touch the surface, but I also understand this machine can also be a bit finnicky on fluid pick-up, getting complete pick up of fluids, and if it doesn't, then in truth one will not fair much better, if fluids are left to dry on an LP's surface, and with them, residues, and contaminants.
I do see a downside of the possibility-potential of a bare Vacuum Wand doing damage to Vinyl. Would you then take this bare Wand, and wipe it across your beloved new Corvette's Paint Job? Don't you think Harry W has gone down this same road, and went down it years ago with experimentation, and testing of different designs, and materials?
In normal operation, and taking care to properly use the 16.5, or other VPI RCM's, the stock wand is not prone to breakage, only if you make the error of dropping-forcing the 16.5 Lid on the Wand when it is swung out of the way, will the Wand crack-break.
I do believe though, that a thicker walled acrylic tube would-could be an advantage, and a re-design of the 16.5 Lid-Hinges, so that the Lid cannot accidentally crack the Tube would be worthy improvements which shouldn't add any substantial price increase of the 16.5 RCM.
One of the other issues I do see with the VPI Machines, and the possibility of "cross contamination", is the Cork Platter Mats. A better material I feel would be advantageous. Some have found simple ways around this. A better material (rubber) that is easier to clean-keep clean, like on more expensive Loricraft, Monks, etc would help.
I'm sorry to be blunt about my recognizance of a product that apparently just didn't seem to do what it was supposed to do. |
Have you ever heard the old saying Rushton, "Run it up the flagpole, and let's see who salutes"?
My last response, which apparently hasn't made it past the moderators, possibly cause of wasted bandwidth, not due to any personal insults towards you, Lloyd, went on to further explain some factual evidence posted here, and realities, nothing more. Mark |
