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  3. 151958-112009

Vinyl “Pops & Clicks” eliminators

I’m betting a polarizing topic, but I ask the question as a truly curious audiophile who has just not honestly had the opportunity to do any real research on this category of products....so, am not asking as either a proponent nor opponent of this technology.   So, a few obvious items: (1) it’s best to work with clean, unblemished LP’s (for multiple reasons) and (2) obviously a product designed to “remove” an audible defect is also going to affect the audible spectrum; but in what ways, exactly, both desirable and undesirable do these devices affect the music?

I’m talking specifically about devices like the Sweetvinyl Sugarcube SC-1, but I’ve literally done zero research so far on how many devices like this even exist.   The “Sweetvinyl” box comes to mind only because I see their ad in TAS mag, but I don’t know if there are other companies with similar products.   
Question is....we all have LPs in our collection that we acquired and for whatever reason were not kept “clean” and have scratches resulting in audible pops/clicks.   Are these devices — essentially selective filters — selective enough to do their job on imperfect records without destroying the surrounding harmonics?    Or do we just discard & reacquire any scratched records we own?   Or is this a “better” solution?

I’m gonna guess that literally 10% maximum of the Agon’ers who reply here have ever owned/heard these products used, so maybe let’s all just mention whether our opinion, our response, is based on real-life observations, or just theoretical replies.    Both have value, but for different reasons.

Best,
Jim
jhajeski

Showing 5 responses by cleeds

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cleeds
5,652 posts
 
mijostyn
Contrary to popular mythology records come from the manufacturer perfectly clean.
That's just plain wrong. I've been in record pressing plants and seen the LPs waiting to be sleeved. These aren't dust-free rooms, so of course some dust accumulates. Some plants are much better than others, but it's easy to show that some new records are packaged with dust on the surface and - sometimes - fingerprints.
If you buy used records then a record cleaning device is mandatory. I do not because every one I have ever played was unacceptably damaged.
I'm sorry for your bad luck! My experience has been mixed, but I do have some LPs that I bought well used and they sound great. I think that's explained in part by my use of a fine-line stylus shape, which rides a part of the groove not likely seen by the original owner's stylus. And I do use US cleaning, which helps.
Once a dirty record is played it is done for. Thousands of PSI pressure literally melts the dust right into the vinyl surface ...
The notion that a stylus exerts thousands of pounds per square inch at the playing surface has been bandied about for years, but I've never seen any mathematics to support the claim, or to prove that a stylus can literally melt dirt into the record. Nor have I seen any physical evidence to support the claim. In fact, my experience suggests just the opposite.
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cleeds
5,652 posts
 
lewm
In my opinion, playing LPs under a dust cover induces more sonic degradation in the form of coloration than a tick or pop as forms of noise.
I think that depends on the particular turntable and dustcover. I would have agreed with you back when I had an Oracle, but I don't find it to be true with my VPI.

To be fair, the VPI TNT dustcover rests on the turntable shelf, and isn't directly connected to the turntable itself.  So that may account for some of the difference.
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cleeds
5,652 posts
 
mijostyn

Soundsmith says the contact area of it’s line contact stylus is 50um2. 1 um2 = 1.55 e-9 inches2. This means 50 um2 = 0.0000000077 inches2. 2 grams = 0.004 lb . 0.004/0.0000000077 = 51,948lb/inches2.52 thousand psi. So now guys lets do the same experiment on cleed but we will put 52 thousand pounds on his head. We can skip the metal rod.
You’ll need to double-check your math. First, Soundsmith defines the contact area not as 50um, but 6 x 50 um. "Rather than providing a small circular 'dot' contact point with the groove, the more complex shape of the Shibata allowed a long vertical line of contact to be achieved with the groove wall."
Details here.
Math is just that, Math. Math allows us to predict what will happen in real terms.
Ok.
I tried a common sense test by lowering my stylus onto my finger. I left it in place for more than a minute. If it was true that the stylus exerted anything near 52,000 psi on my finger, I’m sure I’d have been in pain, especially given my low tolerance for pain. But I didn’t feel any discomfort at all. You’ll need to double-check your math.

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cleeds
5,652 posts
 
mijostyn
If you continue to use "common sense" as your principle metric in life I guarantee you will make one mistake after another.
Common sense has served me very well in life and I have no plan to abandon it.
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cleeds
5,652 posts
 
mijostyn
You are playing your records at a pressure of 52 thousand psi ...
You might want to back off on your VTF a little bit. That kind of pressure would poke a hole right through an LP and possibly damage your platter, too.
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