Vandersteens-- Removing M5-HPs for a Digital Xover?

Thanks.  Yes, I asked Richard, and he said to leave them but also said that it can be done.  So..?  I didn't want to press him on it.  I never had a processor that could define the slope before like this one so that I know I am getting it exactly right.  He said a Butterworth Xover would work, though, which this can do, at 100Hz.  6dB slope, I believe.  Seems like it would be sound better to bypass them.  The Theta does the digital realm so well.

 

fiesta75

Why would you want to do that? Are they not bi-amp capable? How many separate amplifiers are you planning to use with them? If you're going to use an amplifier for each driver, lows, mids and high frequencies, 3 or more like I'm doing, well maybe. I'm multi-amping using an electronic crossover and nothing between the drivers and amplifiers but copper wire. Risky, but in my opinion worth the risk. Best wishes.

To have a cleaner signal path.  Not bi-amping.  If you know Vandersteens, they all have a Xover if they have a sub.  I's just the design.  Thanks for your input.

Yes, I think I will give it a whirl when I get a free afternoon.  Just start the volume off very low...😁

@holmz 

Thank you.  I'm always tweaking, but getting the Quatros was a milestone when I got them.  They were my price/performance bullseye for "forever" speakers, and I had owned 1Cs and then 2Ce Sigs before getting a really good deal on them from here.  Then they had to go and add a CT version (sigh), but that's another story--ha.  They are fantastic, though.

Vandersteens actually make really great surround systems due to their spaciousness.  You can honestly just run movies two-channel, and they sound great.  Also, their surrounds (VSMs) are made to be wall-mounted and look very sleek when done so.

To your comment about the Xover frequency, though, it HAS to be correct on any subs or else it will damage them.  Just so you don't ever do that if you get some.  Other passive models can be toyed with, sure.

Second night of listening.  Definitely a little clearer and better defined.  Slight bump in midrange, which I like.  Less bass (maybe 1.5dB), but I just bumped up my levels.  Bass is crisper, too--kick drums and such--so it's wasn't just the treble tilt before I bumped the bass up.  There's a little more air and three-dimensionality.

To wax poetic about the Quatros for a minute, man, they are fabulous speakers.  The thing that I love about them is that they produce what you give them.  Every tweak/change is to your system is heard.  I've listened to a lot of high-end brands and have been impressed more recently by the revised Aerial 7T (or maybe it was 6T) and the new Revel Be line (I want to hear the Paradigm Be stuff now), but the Vandersteens just always sound so RIGHT.  So real.  I still haven't heard the CTs, but I am happy with these in a dual-use system for now.  Maybe someday if I break it apart and have an even nicer dedicated two-channel system, I would get a second pair in CTs or Kentos/5A CTs, but it would have to be a deal.  Quatros are definitely the price/performance sweet spot, IMO.

Since @holmz had brought up their surround performance, too, I will just reiterate how much I love them for surround, too.  I have a VCC-Sig for a center (want a 5.  I used to see them used all the time but now never do!) and standard VSMs for rears.  I added a VSW recently for the .1 output in addition to the Quatros running full range for the fronts and was messing with it some last night, too.  I had to reconfigure something in the Theta to make it work on the right port and finally did.  I was demoing it all again with one of the few but favorite test discs for sound that I own--Sin City (and it kicks ass), and just wow.  I don't even have the BR version, just the DTS.  Everything is so precisely placed in space.  Of course the Casablanca is doing an awesome job to help things, but the Vandersteens just again make everything seems so realistic.

Anyways...  My .02

@holmz --Congrats on the VCC-5.  I haven't been able to find one in black in some time.  Damage to the other drivers, not the sub.  It's in the manual.  Regarding the frequency and having a Xover, it's for any Vandersteen sub product (except the VSW, which is line level).  The Quatros and up with the subs built in and the separate subs.

My system is dual-use.  It's 5.1, but I do a lot of 2-channel listening on it.  I have been trying to build the best sounding surround system for 2-channel.  It does get a little confusing with the Xovers.  If using the digital Xover at 100Hz, I can't add a second (with what I have) filter to also limit it lower.  Can they ever have a HP applied, even with the M5s in place, and work correctly?  Idk.  I'm not concerned about the Quatros running frequencies too low, though.  I think they are -3 in the 20s, and stereo bass is awesome.  I did/do have to really think about the fact that they are always running full, I guess, since they build back what is taken out by the HP.  The processor is then also sending that to the LFE, though, so I'm kind of getting double the bass (at least from the front signals)?  

Well, I finally tried it last night.

To @gdnrbob 's point and last post, I do trust RV's ears and experience.  He didn't really tell me one way or another in terms of sound when I asked him, though.  I need to do more listening, but I detected a slight bump in clarity upon first impression when moving to the Theta.  Of course, I am not going to be A/Bing this back and forth because it is really hard to reach the back of my amp and switch everything with the limited space I have behind my cabinet and all the cables there.  I have to go on "muscle memory" of having heard certain things for testing over and over again.

It seemed like maybe there was a slight drop-off in bass along with the clarity bump, so that is why I want to be sure I'm not just hearing more upper frequencies and perceiving it as such.  I can adjust the bass in them, if need be, and will probably need to re-run the Vandertones.  I'm also going to be switch power cords in a couple weeks (on order) so will wait to re-calibrate them until that is in, if that's how I think I should go.

I think the takeaway would be that the difference is slight, but better is better.  Thus, I'll take whatever improvements I can find.

So yes, the crossover is set correctly in the M5s, the batteries were done at Vandersteen, and they have not expired. The manual says that testing the voltage actually drains them and that they should be good until the dates marked.