Van den Hul spindle oils for TT bearing

I like some Van den Hul products. Found them highly specialized, especially in analog department.

I would like to use one of VDH’s spindle oils. They have three products that could be used for that purpose and no contact form to ask for specific recommendation.

1. Special Turntable Spindle Oil

This high-tech oil is suitable for all non air-cushioned metal-to-metal turntable bearings and is supplied in a 20 cc bottle with brush. The oil is doped with microscopic 1 micron diameter zirconium oxide marbles which act as an extra rotating separation between the spindle and the bearing bus, and there are so many marbles that there is no direct mechanical contact any more. This flotation property in effect minimizes bearing noise and produces the best audible quality. The friction between the bearing’s metal surfaces furthermore is reduced to just the viscosity of the oil, which is stable and highly temperature independent.

2. The Lower Friction (TLF) special oil type I

TLF is a broad spectrum applicable super oil, especially intended to reduce bearing friction by forming an extremely stable lubrication layer between mechanical parts. Our TLF oil types are particularly suitable for close fitting - tight clearance bearings. The oils offer a superior combination of high performance properties, like for instance a very high resistance against breaking or penetration of the oil film: they can handle a pressure of around 180 - 200 kg/cm² at around 350 degrees Celsius (662 °F) without breaking away. The oils have a viscosity of just one third to one quarter of that of water: they easily spread and build a steady nano-thin layer on each surface. They don’t contain Teflon, graphite or any other particles, don’t oxidize and don’t age. The normal operating temperature ranges up to 175 degrees Celsius (347 °F).

Serving even the most demanding high load and high speed applications, our special TLF oils greatly reduce friction and mechanical noise, substantially extending the life of moving parts and with it reducing service requirement and costs. The oils are supplied in a 25 cc bottle with brush.

TLF Oil type I is most suited as a general purpose low friction lubricant.

3. The Lower Friction (TLF) special oil type II

TLF Oil type II optimally performs in the more heavy load bearing applications.

Application examples:
• Turntables: With TLF type II, turntable bearing noise is dramatically reduced and with TLF type I, tone arms float instead of hang in their bearings.

Please note: Pertaining to turntable platter spindle bearings, our special TLF II oil is especially suitable for tight clearance types. To maintain optimal lubrication and mechanical noise reduction with (platter spindle) bearings which have higher clearance (up to around 40 μm) however, our heavier type Turntable Spindle Oil is advised.

• Automotive (TLF II): A.J. van den Hul has already tested this oil for more than one year in both front wheels’ bearings of his 1750 kg heavy car. Result: less bearing noise and after a firm push the wheels just rotate without stopping...

• CD and DVD players (TLF I): Provides excellent lubrication of the spindle and the laser along its support arm. (Less mechanical noise also means less digital jitter...).

• Others (TLF I): Computer fans run for ever, as also will your air-conditioner’s fan and other ventilators. Even your Philishave runs faster and there are many more applications...

I would like to use the oil in TW-Acustic Raven AC turntable. Unfortunately I do not know what is bearing clearance in this TT. I have asked about recommendation Thomas from TW, but was politely ignored.

I suppose that in high quality TT spindle oil is important issue, so I would like to choose a proper one.

My question is – did you ever used on of the VDH olis for TT bearing and which one would you recommend to use in Raven AC.

Thanks for inputs!
The only oil I've used is the Spindle Oil (on my Goldmund Studietto TT) and it made a huge difference (quieter background, better bass dynamics, and almost no audible mechanical noise.) Being a DD TT there wasn't too much mechanical noise to begin with, but the proof of the pudding was it took a lot longer for the platter to stop rotating ;~)

You have to remember to shake this product well before using to make sure the Zirconium oxide particles are fully suspended in the oil (they don't say that on the bottle ;~)
Thank you for your input.

It seems that spindle oil is intended for bearings that has higher clearance and do not use any plastic or Teflon parts.

I do not know the bearing clearance in Raven AC but it must be tight as when the 10 kg platter is positioned on the spindle it takes good few seconds to settle down.

In that case TLF oil type II seems to be more suitable.

Unfortunately I never heard the results of using it.
Why not use the TW oil provided with the table?
The oil delivered by TW is some kind of standard oil. It is not any specialized product. I wonder if any audiophile grade oil would be an update.
BTW at the moment I do not have a problem with TW oil but with lack of a support and recommendation fro manufacturer.
Milimetr, I'm glad you mentioned the matter of non-metallic bearing materials. You must not use the VDH Spindle Oil with assemblies containing plastic, Delrin, Nylon or Teflon parts, due to excessive wear AND the fact that the hard zirconium oxide particles will become embedded in those soft materials and essentially lose their effectiveness.

I'm not familiar with the Raven AC or its bearings' specifications; however, the platter on my Goldmund is not that heavy, and yet it still takes a long time to settle down, regardless of the oil used. I'm sure being a Goldmund product, the spindle bearing is manufactured to tight tolerances but I see no danger in using the VDH zirconium-doped product. In fact, I would think the product would be even more effective in a belt-drive TT, to reduce the effect of asymmetical loading on the spindle bearing.
I have inspected once again bearing specification of Raven AC.
The web site states:
"Bronze bearing, 16 mm hard metal shaft with ball on top, running on a thrust washer of 'Material S ® (green)'. This is a special low-pressure PE based material with a very low coefficient of friction and very high wear resistance, giving a long maintenance free life without the need for additional lubrication. Bushing is machined exactly to fit the bearing with zero float, yet remains replaceable."

It seems that the most important part in contact with shaft bearing is those green PE based insert. This probably exclude any lubricant with abrasive parts.

The friend of mine recomends automotive Shyntetics oil Mobil One 10W30.
He claims that oil R&D and development is WAY beyond the ability of the audio designers.

The mount of research which goes into making an oil capable of withstanding 10,000 RPM at 400F, while maintaining viscosity, is something none of the audiophile gurus can do.

At 33 rpm per minute, under minimal stress with no temperature changes, the Mobil One can last > 10,000 years in the turntable.

How do you think about these theory?

Milimetr, I don't think the PE 'thrust pad' will be affected by the particles in the Spindle Oil if you want to try it. Only a tiny portion of the rounded end of the bearing shaft contacts the thrust pad. TT makers used to use a ball bearing as a thrust pad, but found they made noise, as the ball bearing and/or the end of the shaft could never quite "find" a fixed spot to bear against each other, and so would continually 'wander', sometimes at an audible frequency! My Goldmund TT has a Teflon thrust pad and it isn't going to wear out. A small number of particles might have become embedded in the Teflon, but wouldn't cause noise or produce wear -- so no worries. I think only large rotating or sliding surfaces of plastic against metal, or maybe even plastic against plastic, should be avoided.
I'm also using it on my Thorens TD 124 II with James Campbell's bronze end cup that has also a Teflon pad.
No issues at all. Only excellent results.
Be safe and stick with your manufactures OME recommended lubricant, stay away from auto lubricants because of the other ingredients in it.
Could be sewing machine oil from the manufacture, but why not it wouldnt eat anything away.
I use a specialty lubricant used in the arospace industry sourced through a friend at Siemens invented by Dowcorning and none of it is available to the public in any shape or form, however I have more then I would ever use. If you think you would like to skip the sewing machine oil contact me.
Thank you for your input.
Do you use VHD Spindle oil or TLF oil?
I use the TLF for all the other bearings (idler & indermetiate pulley) but for the main spindle bearing I use "The Spindle Oil".
Remember that the molybdanum (Liqui Moli & the likes and anything that is not 100% synthetic) can open small holes to the phosphor bronze rings of any bearing! Amsoil is good because it is not a rafinated from the first place, but created as synthetic. The Siemens used for telecomunication mechanical centers is excellent. The VDH's TLF although is as thin as the No10 (at sewing machines) is far more protective.