VAC - any comments? Good or bad.


I am considering buying a set of VAC amplifiers. I have read comments on other companies before her in the forum section, but have never read anything on VAC. Anybody got anything good or bad to say about these guys? Thanks for your comments.
dfrigovt

Showing 6 responses by lrsky

It is impossible to measure amplifier output as a 'qualitative' or linearity value, "through" loudspeakers.
I know your attempt may have been sincere, but it serves no point ultimately.
The speakers, as an electro mechanical device invalidate the test, with their own unique set of impedence and back emf.
If you want a real test, of the amplifiers output, in what may be considered broad based in nature, you would have to measure 100 pairs of all types of speakers, and then, you would have 'something', but I am not sure what. Also, you would need to room calibrate the mic's. This is too much to go into in a small thread.
Call ANY manufacturer of amps and pose this question to them. Cite your techniques and get their feedback.
Please don't take my word for it.
Lrsky
I have had nothing but wonderful experinces with VAC. I can't imagine what this prior post is all about. What kind of measurements were they taking, and with what gear? Is this just proof that there is always someone????
Ten posts, now eleven, and, one crucifixion. Sounds about right; everyone loves VAC and Kevin then the expert steps up to the plate and just lays his product to waste. Strange, and not my experience. Except for that time that when my Radio Shack $99. receiver sounded better than the London Philharmonic...live!
Just can't let this one go. What were you measuring? The amp output, or the speaker output in the room? What techniques, etc. Just curious. I spoke to Kevin Hayes personally, after this came up. Kevin is honest, sincere (doesn't mean he couldn't make a klunker) and he is nonplussed by this 'measurement'. So I really don't think unexplained 'scientific' measurements are as compelling as Subaruguru might think. I would like to know more about his process. I am very curious. If someone takes a manufacturer to task, it only seems fair to publish the whole of the technique involved in the 'negative' measurements he obtained.
Also, I would say that, if the Amp measures, independently, this poorly, it SHOULD be published, and the manufacturer, scolded. I do know that the Avatar will play the THIEL 3.6, (a speaker known for its horrific load, and inefficiency)quite loudly, and according to all reports, reasonably flatly in its output.
Again, very interested, and hoping for fairness on both sides.
Larry
I think everyone who reads this can draw their own conclusions as to what was actually measured here.
The amplifier's real output is not measurable through a non calibrated loudspeaker, with further room calibrations made, to compensate for room, frequency anomolies.
If this measurement of the "amp" were taken with a million speakers, we would see a million different results.
I thought, when I read this that the, so called, 'amplifier measurements' were suspect, now I, and everyone can see what has happened. Poor Kevin, he must be pulling his hair out.
Good listening,
Larry
To reiterate, ask any manufacturer about the validity of this experiment. I am sure it was done with good intentions, but it is flawed, not because I personally think so. Call ANY electronics manufacturer and ask. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE MY INPUT SERIOUSLY. I am just one of the guys.
Ask Dave Gordon at ARC, Bill Conrad of conrad johnson, Dan D'Agistino of Krell, Jeff Rowland. Need I go on?
If it was important enough for Subaru to go to all that time and trouble to do this in the first place, surely he won't mind getting input from the actual manufacturers of the gear, who try so desparately to create these products, why this form of testing is invalid.
They WILL be forthcoming if you just ask.
Best,
Lrsky
Ern,
"...and please not be coy about summoning the industry gods to pass judgement on what anyone of reasonable facility with the scientific method can discern is a well-run set of differential tests..."
Why would you refer to industry "experts", as "Gods" in such a sarcastic manner? What ax are you grinding, and why?
My comments were aimed at the potential of some possible unusual load of the the speaker, and possibly room effects to skew any results, and that if you used a host of speakers, that the test results would be different with each differing reactive, rather than resistive load.
There are numerous questions, but a few come to mind. Did you use calibrated mic's? Have you previously plotted the room for additive frequency anomolies, or did you do as most real qualified scientists do, and use an anechoic chamber, or a faux chamber, designed with the flaws input into the response curve of the room,in order to factor those errors out? Again, I would ask if you use more than one set of speakers, if so were the results of the amps exactly the same?
No one is peeing here, I simply said I thought you did the tests with sincerity, but that I doubted the validity because the reaction of only one set of speakers, with one Avatar amp, and no pre test,test data on it, to compare with others of its ilk,(meaning, was the amp tested, and confirmed to be in perfect, or its intended operating condition and certified to be so?).
Speakers present reactive not resistive loads, as everyone knows, hence, tests of an amplifiers output, is done with various resistors, (still flawed) yes but equally so, since this test is still into resistors, even though of varying values.
Cable capacitance, inductance, any of that factored in, or would you say that this doesn't make any difference whatsoever in your tests?
Why are you buying such flawed gear? If you have doubts about a product and its output, why not try before you buy; why lie in the bushes (metaphorically) and ambush any manufacturer with such (imperfect, incomplete) testing. Even though I have written many press releases that were released nationally, that does not make me Ernest Hemingway.
And just so you'll know, even though the folks at VAC didn't really call you to task on this test, I know personally, that a coffee mug was offered as a prize to anyone who could explain your tests, and how they relate to real world.
The implication of your test is that the Avatar is flawed in its output, and that Solid State amps are not. I don't believe that, as a narrow finding, that this is correct. I don't know, and neither does anyone reading this, that the Avatar in question was working correctly when you "tested" it.
Also, a little presumptious to think you can educate someone you don't know, and even offensive based on this writing you give as support for that claim.
If only Kevin Hayes weren't so concerned about public image he would join this discussion and "enlighten" you, as to the variables which are not dealt with or even mentioned in your diatribe.
Again, I am only one person. Ask any (and they aren't God's that is insulting) industry expert how valid these tests are, don't ask or try to convince me.
By the way, what audio products have you designed? How well do they sell? With your obvious tallent you should teach all these manufacturers the error of their ways. You seem to be a disgruntled, anti audio person, on some not so obvious quest to discredit VAC. If that is the case, I suggest you move on, sell it and forget it. If not, please be more respectful.