Dear Atmasphere: +++++ " Tubes are able to retrieve greater detail than transistors and they sound more relaxed. " +++++
IMHO this statement is a little out of reality/true. The design in the audio device is critical for the sound reproduction and from that design ( it does not matters tube or SS ) we can achieve more or less " to retrieve greater detail....relaxed " sound.
I know very well your units but I would not exhibit any of your products.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Atmasphere: +++++ " The fact is you did not audition our gear. " +++++
This is totally untrue. Everyone that know me knows that I never ever affirm something that is untrue.
If the owner of that Atmasphere ( preamp and amp ) audio devices give me its Ok ( better yet, if he want too that he post about )I will give you all the info about. I hope he agree because now my word is in " doubt "??????
Now you are insulting me, something that I never believe/wait/spect from you.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Atmasphere: Absolutely wrong: I heard it in three different audio systems.
Please don't go a head with: +++++ " there is nothing misleading about my statement at all and it is very easy to demonstrate at any level of cost ... " +++++.
I'm not against the tube technology but it is totally unfair to make the kind of statements that you do, that kind of opinion does not help to the people only confuse them because today there are many examples of SS technology that in several ways and overall are better than the best tube technology : and like you say " is very easy to demonstrate ".
Please stay calm about.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Atmasphere: I apologize for my earlier comment which an American friend explained to me was worded incorrectly. When I said, I know very well your units but I would not exhibit any of your products
what I really meant was that I know your units very well, and are not mentioning them (or any other products) as an example to debate. My view is that we cant generalize that ALL tubes or ALL ss sound a certain way, and that the individual design of the component makes all the differences.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Atmasphere: I apologize for my earlier comment which an American friend explained to me was worded incorrectly. When I said, I know very well your units but I would not exhibit any of your products
what I really meant was that I know your units very well, and are not mentioning them (or any other products) as an example to debate. My view is that we cant generalize that ALL tubes or ALL ss sound a certain way, and that the individual design of the component makes all the differences.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Hagtech: First my apology to Csmithbarc for this post but IMHO it is extremely important to speak about:
+++++ " The big advantage tubes have over solid state is that they are *far* more linear. " +++++
Yes, I agree with that in normal designs: in our design we develop a totally new mathematics theorem to make the transistor full linear, so that advantage dissapear.
+++++ " They also overload in a much more sonically benign fashion, tending towards compression rather than clipping. " +++++
I agree too in normal designs and in the past SS ones ( even on those times M.Levinson and Mcinthos introduce in their electronics designs a " soft clipping " stage. ). Today almost all SS designs take care about designing with very high overload levels so the clipping subject it is not an issue.
+++++ " Most solid state amplification employs feedback ... " +++++
No, more and more SS designs come with NON feedback design, as a fact the non-feedback design is the SS rule today.
+++++ " But as Atmasphere points out, the micro details and very small signal information is better recovered via tubes. This is not just opinion, but a technical limitation of topology. The exception would be an open-loop class A gain stage " +++++
It is untrue that there is a technical limitation topology, it is not: what could exist is a not so good design but there are a lot of right SS designs out there.
As a fact you state that there is an exeption: " The exception would be an open-loop class A gain stage ... " well this is one of the exeptions.
As you can see there is no single advantage from the tubes against SS, what exist is different designs ( good and bad ) in both technology sides.
You already know all the tube technology limitations, like you say almost all work with coupling caps or coupled transformers, the tubes are harmonic generators and the problem is that that harmonics does not exist in the original signal, the impedance problems are bigger too when a tube amp try to handle the " electrical speaker impedance ": almost all the tube electronics are high output impedance that when is connected to cables, audio devices or speakers change the frequency response: I can go on speaking about the tube limitations but this is not the subject. I believe that exist very good designs ( within its own technology limitations ) on both sides and we the customers have the choice.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Jh: +++++ " If you have, however, invented some new circuit topology that does what you claim, then I suggest you patent it immediately. " +++++
We are in this process.
+++++ " This is the difference between a 2A3 SET and your typical SS amplifier " +++++
Maybe the problem is that there is no more ( almost ) that " typical SS " topology. Today almost all preamps goes non-feedback, pure class A and discrete stages. Btw, we are using bipolars.
+++++ " Yes. So is feedback. " +++++
Like I told you almost the rule today are non-feedback designs. I think that you need some update about.
You certainly know every single tube technology limitations: very high output impedance, tubes are a noisy device " per nature ", tubes designs have higher distortions level than SS or hybrids one, tubes have heavy problems to reproduce accurately both frequency extremes specially the low bass where ( beteen other things ) does not have control over the woofers like the SS topology, tubes are untrusty: time to time ( very short time ) blow-up, tubes are not performance consistent: almost every single day sound different ( many people don't take in count because every day are in touch with their systems ). Jh you know that we can go on speaking about but this is not the subject: you and me know that there is nothing perfect in tubes or SS electronics.
Jh, the subject is that the " very old myths " about SS designs, fortunately, dissapear. Today we have very good SS designs as we can find good tube designs. The best of all is that today the customers have several choices that in the past don't.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Atmasphere: A well SS design has lower distortion that a well tube design.
In my last trips to USA in three different audio systems: three tube audio devices blow up, one of them was Atmasphere.
Ralph this is not a tournament, you and me like every single music lover are looking for the same: the best quality sound reproduction, you choose to do it through tubes and that's fine other people like me choose doing through SS technology.
Ralph, I'm not against the tube technology: the subject is that till today the SS technology help me in a best way to achieve my music sound priorities, if in the future I find that the tubes ( I owned for many years tube electronics ) could help me you can be sure that I will use it, but today they can't in any way. Btw, by design we dissapear those odd harmonics.
Fortunately for all of us the tube and SS designs are " suffering " improvements over " past " designs and that fact has to be a motive of great enthusiasm for all the audio community.
Instead that we use our time speaking about the advantages/disadvantages of either technology IMHO we could use that time trying to improve our designs or better yet try to work " together " for a better future on the quality music sound reproduction.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Audiokinesis: The problem was " more " than a simple single tube: first one tube, few minutes latter a second one and finally damage the speaker.
Atmasphere is right the amp don't suffer a serious damage, but I'm talking of a whole sale tube technology problems when used on audio:
+++++ " You certainly know every single tube technology limitations: very high output impedance, tubes are a noisy device " per nature ", tubes designs have higher distortions level than SS or hybrids one, tubes have heavy problems to reproduce accurately both frequency extremes specially the low bass where ( beteen other things ) does not have control over the woofers like the SS topology, tubes are untrusty: time to time ( very short time ) blow-up, tubes are not performance consistent: almost every single day sound different ( many people don't take in count because every day are in touch with their systems ). Jh you know that we can go on speaking about but this is not the subject: you and me know that there is nothing perfect in tubes or SS electronics.
Jh, the subject is that the " very old myths " about SS designs, fortunately, dissapear. Today we have very good SS designs as we can find good tube designs. The best of all is that today the customers have several choices that in the past don't. " +++++
and I'm talking of those tube problems only because Mr. Atmasphere " thinks " that he lives in an " island " where only exist TUBES and where the other technologies are not " up to the task ".
This is totally untrue there are hybrid and SS designs ( tube designs too ) that not only are very good designs but that outperforms the Atmasphere gear.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
