@lowrider57 : " n80, you have no baseline or reference to judge the SQ of your preamp."
That's what I'm saying. It is a blessing and a curse! The blessing is that I think it sounds great. The curse is that it might not. ;-)
I don't remember where those prices came from. Just a Google search. I don't know anything about types. This is what comes in the pre-amp:
6922/E88CC dual triode. It takes 4. |
I do have the MKI which means 4 tubes to replace or try rather than 2.
@rodman99999 : "There’s no problem, trying just one pair per gain stage, at a time, to see if you like the change."
I’m not sure what that means. Does that mean I can just change 2 of the 4 tubes to get an adequate test of SQ?
"NOS Siemens(tighter bottom, airier and more detailed/cleaner than stock)."
That sounds like what I would want. A search reveals that gold pin versions of those tubes go for around $40 - $75 each. Does that sound right? How careful do I need to be to avoid fakes or crappy tubes?
" IF you’re actually happy with your sound, why fix something that isn’t broken? Just don’t go listening to a lot of live music."
I am actually quite happy with the sound, but there’s always that audiophile neurosis that whispers in my ear that maybe it could be better and I just don’t know how bad it sounds right now. But I don’t understand what you mean about live music. Live music recordings? I only have a few, all on vinyl. Not all that crazy about live recordings, but why would live recordings be a problem?
Edit: At Upscale Audio those Siemens tubes are $135 each and their site says they do not sell NOS. Does that mean they are used? How do you know how many hours are on them? Well, its all academic since right now there is no way I'm spending $500+ on a set of tubes. (I realize that's chump change for serious tube rollers). |
@elizabeth : It takes an effort to keep the 'inner audiophile' tame. Even some of the stuff I consider to be wacko beckons at times. But I also have an inner Scotsman that delights in high bang-for-buck ratios which becomes a hobby in itself and helps keep my over-the-top hobby tendencies at bay. I love a bargain that fits a need!
@lowrider57 : I don't think I'll end up being a tube geek. Having a back up set makes sense and I'll probably do that if I can do it affordably. But then that's the first step isn't it? Get the back up tubes. Can't resist trying them out. Like the way they sound. Wonder about a different set.............
@rodman99999 : Currently my live music consists of the symphony 3 - 4 times a year, opera maybe once a year. But that's not what I tend to listen to on my system. I go to loud rock shows a few times a year. SQ at those shows is never great. Fun shows though. |
@mofimadness On the scale of things in the tube world those are quite inexpensive, even for the platinum. What would you say were the characteristics of those tubes? |
Another question: Does anyone know which brand of tubes came in the LS-16 MkI from the factory? I can find the type but not the brand. I could pull my pre-amp out and take the lid off to find out but if someone knows that would be a lot easier. The AR database does not say as far as I can tell. |
@rodman99999 : Thank you for your extremely generous offer. I would like to try that. I will PM you with details and arrange to compensate you for shipping, etc. |
@mofimadness : Very nice indeed. I am often taken aback by the kindness of folks I don't even know. I hope to be able to pass on such kindness in the future.
Now I am a little worried about whether I will hear a difference or not as I don't have a lot of confidence in my ears. I will have my wife listen with me.
@rodman99999 : I have PM'd you my address.
Now that I'm actually going to get to try tube rolling I have some questions:
Access to the internal of my LS-16 is easy. Just a few screws. I'm assuming the removing and replacing these types of tubes is just a straightforward firm pull up to remove and firm downward pressure to install.....no twisting or locking?
Wear gloves to keep oil, etc off the tubes?
When I Google tube changing the issue of biasing comes up, mostly with guitar amps. Is this something I need to worry about with my pre-amp? The manual does not say anything about that.
My pre-amp uses four tubes. Someone said above that I should be able to tell some difference with just two but I'm not sure where to put the two replacement tubes. The layout is like this:
V1 V2
V3 V4
Apparently when new the tubes are actually marked V1-V4 for exact location.
If I hear a difference with two will that difference by more pronounced with a full set of four?
If I like what I hear with two of these tubes and decide to get two more how precisely do they second two need to be matched with the first two? Is it okay to buy the same brand and designation or will they all four need to be tested and matched?
Sorry for questions that might seem obvious but this is new to me.
George
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@mofimadness : Thanks. I also have some deoxidizing spray that I used to clean and repair the pots on my old receiver. Should I apply this to the pins? |
@rodman99999 : "Gold does not oxidize and I’d appreciate it, if these pristine gold tube pins weren’t repeatedly pulled in and out of a socket"
Got it.
"Nor do tube manufacturers need to be the same"
Wow. That opens up a lot of tuning possibilities. |
To be clear, there is no harm to the unit in using different brands (in pairs as mentioned above)? If I broke this thing I'm sure I'd have a hard to paying for repairs! |
@rodman99999 : "if you’re having second thoughts"
Oops, sorry, I didn't see this post. No second thoughts at all. Really looking forward to trying this. |
What I have is DeOxit. Probably no reason to use it if the pins look good. |
@mofimadness : I have. Can't wait to give it a try. Already looking for 2 more of those tubes just in case I really like them and want to have all 4 the same.
I've run into a couple of things though. One source says these were counterfeited for a while. I see them on reputable sites for $150 - $200 each. I see them in pairs on eBay for $150. See some individuals on eBay for $45.
Just guessing the eBay offerings are probably not the way to go. |
@lowrider57 : "
A very generous offer by Rodman."
The more I research these tubes the more I realize that! |
This will be interesting. Just hope my ears aren't so dull that I don't hear anything different. (I probably should not be pre-loading expectations either!) |
@rodman99999 : Is a 'halo' getter the same as an 'O' getter? |
Thanks guys,
I contacted Brent Jesse and explained my situation. He has 'butt ugly' versions of the Amperex which are tested and matched that he recommends (for my budget) at $170 per pair.
So if I like the way rodman's tubes sound I might go that route. |
Sounds like thoughtful innovation there and that would certainly influence my purchasing decision if I were in the market. Currently I'm 'stuck' with what I have. Plus mine was free. ;-) |
@rodman99999 : Tracking says tubes are still set to get to me tomorrow. |
@rodman99999 : The tubes are here and they do look pristine. Testing begins now.
Right now I'm listening to the CD I will use for a reference with the original tubes.
Couple of questions:
Obviously I will unplug the unit before opening it but how long do I need to let it cool down before changing tubes?
The original tubes appear to have some sort of rubber ring around the outside of them. Does this stay with them or do they get removed and put on the new tubes?
Will let you know what I think once I've had a few listens. Will also get my wife to listen as well and see what she thinks. She is not an audiophile but she is a musician.....and sometimes 'naive'' ears will be more sensitive since they have no expectations.
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Okay, I couldn't wait. Got them installed in the V1 and V2 positions.
I can tell a difference immediately.
The first thought in my head was "laid back". Maybe this is what people mean by 'warm'. And this might be impossible but the music sounds a little slower. Not so much a tempo issue, almost like a slower pace. Can't really describe it. I think the highs are tempered a bit and a little less bright than the original tubes, which might be a good thing. Certainly less clinical than the original tubes. The effect on bass is interesting. It seems a little deeper but does not seem to have lost any tightness or precision, or at least not much.
That's all I can say right now. Will obviously let them play for a few hours and then put the old tubes back in for another comparison.
For the record, the original tubes are Electro-Harmonix. They say "Made in Russia" and below that "04 02". 6922H is printed near the top. Pins are silver in color. Each one has two rubber rings up near the top.
Thanks again to rodman99999 for the opportunity to give these a try.
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I've been listening for a couple of hours to several favorite and familiar CDs now and can say "laid back" and "warm" seem to be the right terms. I can confirm that the highs are less stringent as well. There is nothing that I'm hearing that I don't like but I also can't say that I have a strong preference between them.
Two strengths that I would attribute to these tubes: 1) They give a more analog and less clinical feel to digital media. 2) They seem to soften the harshness of overly compressed/loud CDs. This may be they biggest appeal to me.
Al, I'm not going to put the silicone rings on the Amperex tubes. They are fairly hard to get off the old ones as is. |
