Tone controls -- assuming you're ok with them, when would you try them?


So, I'm learning and experimenting w/ speaker/sub placement. I've had some success. Presently using my old Adcom GTP-400 preamp (treble, bass, and loudness/contour controls). It's likely my next amps won't have tone controls (nor balance). 

Beyond compensating for old/bad recordings, I realize there is, nevertheless, a standing debate whether tone controls are worth the (likely) sound degradation. Imagine that debate was settled and tone controls were deemed worthwhile, overall. IF you'll stipulate to all that, my question is this:

QUESTION: If the sound is not right in your room, and you've placed speakers as best you can, what do you try next? At what point do you go for tone controls?

Perhaps some just go for tone controls from the get-go…happy to hear from you all, too.

FWIW, I saw this nice list from @erik_squires on this topic:   
erik_squires8,293 posts
08-19-2017 11:06am
Tone controls help us compensate for differences in recording trends across decades of recordings.
Tone controls help us adjust our sound quality to different listening situations and volumes.
Tone controls help us adjust for speaker placement.
Tone controls are much cheaper and more efficient way of doing this than most other solutions.
A good tone control is a lot easier to implement than a good equalizer. Fewer bands so more affordable to use high quality parts.

128x128hilde45

Showing 15 responses by hilde45

@erik_squires I always love your answers.
Good point about the gear. I'd heard that about Luxman.
"It’s not as if you are going to taint yourself or be arrested."
LOL!
I hear you about room acoustics, and I know there are ways of dealing with that that does not require specialty equipment, necessarily.
When I lived in apartments, loudness buttons were frequently useful.
And not replying to anyone in particular here, but I’m pretty sure all human beings should come equipped with tone controls. (At least, that’s what people would say to me if they thought out loud!)
@erik_squires I tried to head that off with the setup to my question. To me, there’s not much difference between audio and food. You think a salad is better with a bit of pepper? You in the mood for parmesan on your pizza? Your coffee needs more milk? Who am I to say? It’s not my place. Your equipment, your subjective experience.

The question becomes a live one when one already prefers to leave the sound alone -- a nod to the purists -- but wants, occasionally, to adjust things, to fix a problem. Then, the question becomes "How best to do that?" The answer "I’d never do that" is tantamount either to, "Sound problems can *always* be fixed without tone controls" or "I’d rather live with the problem than introduce tone controls (because they’re just another problem)."
@erik_squires That's exactly right. I was reading a thread here on Agon, "Which Steely Dan recordings should I get?" Turns out, there are many different versions; some mastered this way, others mastered that way. Which one is the true one? No such thing. "Better" and "worse" versions exist contingent on what the particular goals of a particular listener are. Again -- up to each of us. You want punchy upper end and you get that with tone controls? Go ahead, spice it up. I sleep better when I know that absolutely everything which could "degrade" the signal has been eliminated? Waiter, bring me a glass of milk. 
Some people even get the wax cleared out of their ears. That's a drastic form of tone control.
I asked a local dealer about the Loki; he has a couple dozen older equalizers for sale. He pointed at a shelf filled with them and wondered why anyone would need to buy a new, 4 dial equalizer, when they could easily get 5, 10, 30 band equalizers on the used market. 

Is there a reason this one is so popular? Is it the only one out there that's new, cheap, cute? Or is there something about the technology in this little box?
I like the simplicity. Just hard to see how they made it so well for $150. But that's what people say about *all* their stuff, I take it.
@mesch , tvad -- I'm sorry I'm not quite following.

If one was thinking about separates, are you saying the best way is to insert the tone control *between* the preamp and the amp?

Preamp ----> tone control ----> amp ?

Rather than:

Source ----> tone control ----> preamp ?

And for an integrated, I'm not sure I understand. Sorry.


These last two posts really speak to another side of audio which I love -- not only *adjusting the sound balance* (as if we were all recording engineers) but also just *play.* I like to play with things. Remembering that helps keep life meaningful to me.
I was wanting a tone control this morning, listening quietly in my basement with everyone else asleep.
I was wanting a tone control yesterday, trying out some Klipsch 600m speakers, to see if the brightness could be tamed.
I was wanting tone control two days ago, to see how much my subwoofer was contributing to the the lower end of my speakers.
I was wanting tone control because an old Joni Mitchell recording had buried her voice in the live mix.
Are there better ways to accomplish these things? Probably.
Would it be ideal if my listening room never needed tone-control adjustment? Sure.
Once my system reaches perfection, will I take my tone control out to the driveway, douse it with lighter fluid, and offer it to the gods as a burnt offering? Of course not.
"Move closer" -- love it! 
"Spatial expander?" Move around.
"Turn it off?" Leave the house.
"Turn it on?" Return to house.
And so on.
Thanks for the chuckle, builder3!