Don't blow all your budget on an amp. As far as I can tell from what you told us, you need a lot of equipments to make these speakers sing well. Seriously share with us, how you came about to buying these speakers? It sounded to me that you wanted a multi channel HT set up / 2 channel music all-in-one system but you pretty much spent more than half of your budget on 2 speakers. |
It's easier to set up for HT than finding good synergy gears for music, esp. for 1038 Be with its berillyum tweeter. These are very very good speakers and good speakers demand good gears.
For HT, getting a multi-channel AV receiver such as Anthem MRX (up to $2k) or Integra DTR (up to $2.5k) will do the job. But these AVRs and mediocre source (optical out from your PC) won't be able to do justice for music. But getting a good AVR is a good start as your system isn't dedicated for music only. AVR will allow you to watch movie and play music in one box.
Once you get your AVR and if/when you want more for music, your next step is getting a good amp. Pass has good synergy with Electra. If you have a small/ medium size room, you can start off with either Pass XA30.5 (used $3.5k) or X150.5. 1038 Be are 8ohm 93db efficiency speakers which means you don't need monster of an amp.
After that improve your source. Get a good universal player such as Oppo 95 ($1k) or 105 ($1.2k). You can do this before getting an amp too, AVR will work with CD player.
Next major step would be to get a pre-amp with HT bypass.
I know this is a lot of info in a very short amount of time. My suggestion to you is go to an audio store to seek help, explain your situation. And not just your around the corner Best Buy, you seriously need to talk to someone who knows these speakers well. (Someone who suggested these to you???) One thing I'm really curious though is how you even bought 1038 Be in the first place without experience and necessary equipments. Again these are top notch audiophile speakers and very careful system matching is needed. |
Pelo911,
Thanks for the explanation. Don't get me wrong 1038 Be is a good buy especially at that price. I was just real curious because your situation seems very unusual.
Here's the list of basic components that I think you'd need.
1) Transport - CD player, PC or Mac, Sonos, etc (Oppo 95/105)
2) DAC - digital to analog converter (you only need this if your transport is PC or Mac. Devices like Oppo already has internal DAC)
3) Pre-amp - line stage, volume control (pre-amp is a lot more than just this, but this is for simplicity) A pre-amp with HT bypass is what you need
4) AVR or pre/processor - they are for multi channel HT, but they can be used as a pre-amp for music (but most AVR or processor aren't up to par unless you want to go up to Anthem D2v or Avm50. They are pricy) My recommendation is a simple AVR for HT and a quality pre-amp (with HT bypass) for music. HT by pass allow you to connect your AVR to your pre-amp as one input. (AVR = processor + amp)
5) Amp - each speaker in your system needs an amp. Most amps you talked about are stereo (2 channel only). AVR usually have multichannel amp and brands like Anthem, Integra, Arcam have decent AVR. |
Ok Pelo,
If I were you, this is what I'd do with $8k budget for electronics (opinions may vary).
I'd start off with a 2.0 HT/music all-in-one system first (then down the road, add center, surround, sub for 5.1 HT, but again my priority would be 2 channel music)
Amp - Pass + Focal Electra is a match made in heaven, especially XA.5 series. If you do not have a big room, XA30.5 ($3.5k used) should be enough for 1038 Be. I've heard nothing but good things about Parasound but I'm not familiar with them. What I do know is they run a few initial watts in class A and many people swear by Parasound.
Pre-amp - I'd love to recommend Pass XP-10 ($3.5-4k used) but this would blow your budget. Only consider this if you get a Pass amp. You could consider Parasound pre. It always makes sense to get same brand amp/pre-amp combo - easier to achieve tonal balance. Just make sure you get a HT by-pass with your pre for your HT duty.
AVR - Anthem MRX 500/700 or Arcam AVR (give or take $1.2-1.5k used) (I would not consider lesser AVR to pair with 1038 Be. But remember this is only for HT duty. I personally do not like playing music off AVR with Electra Be) Another reason I'd opt for AVR over processor is when you add center/surround, you can make use of AVR's internal amps and you probably won't need to buy additional amps.
Processor - I do not have much experience. But used Anthem Avm20 or Avm50 might be within your budget. Of course you only need either an AVR or a processor. Not both. With a processor, every time you add a new speaker, you'll need an amp.
DAC - $1-2k range would do the job. At the price point you have a lot you can consider. Most bang for the buck IMO is Metrum Octave NOS. Others - W4S DAC2, NAD M51.
Reclocker - I assume you're running music off PC through optical output. I'd like to recommend Empirical Audio Synchro-mesh reclocker ($600). You will place this between your PC and DAC. What this does is cleaning up your digital clock jitter. I personally use this and highly recommend this product.
I think the safer route for you is to go with Parasound amp/pre-amp combo. Talk to a Parasound dealer and I'm sure they'll have a matching combo for your budget (I just can't stop recommending Pass but they come with a hefty price tag). After that an Anthem AVR, a DAC, a reclocker and you're good to go. Good luck.
Oh wait, cables. Don't go buy expensive cables just yet. You can start off with cheaper models (anti-cables, morrow audio, etc). Getting right with the speaker/amp/pre-amp combo is the key. Then you can try out different cables for your preference. Cable co. is a good place to start after you get the amp/pre-amp/dac. |
Again, 1038 Be is fairly efficient speakers...meaning you don't need monster of an amp. With your budget and your needs (pretty much everything except speakers), I find Parasound Halo series is quite fitting. |
If your budget allows X250.5 will be a good choice (I personally prefer XA.5 series). Try contacting Reno Hifi, they usually have very well priced demo units.
Integrated could also work very well for you. Again the key is, just because your system is HT/stereo combo, getting an integrated with HT by-pass.
Again, my recommendation is don't blow all your budget on the amp alone (i.e., spending $6-7k on the amp for $8k budget). In order for a hifi system to sound good, every piece of equipment in the signal chain has to play well with others (on par with others). You can get the "best" speakers and amps, but if your other components aren't up to par, it will not sound good.
As a side note, if you're still planning to play music off your pc optical out, getting a reclocker is a must IMO.
If you play CDs a lot, getting a good transport cdp is a must. Oppo-105 that coming out is a good start. After the speakers, I find the transport gives 2nd most performance per dollar. |
Just to make sure Pelo, you're running music off from your PC via optical output? Did I mistaken you with someone else? |
Hi Pelo,
Parasound Halo A21 (250wpc into 8ohm) has plenty of power for 1038 Be. Unless you listen to music at ear-bleeding level, the amp will stay in class A most of the time. Besides, it doesn't necessarily mean going out of class A and into class A/B is bad. Far from it.
XA60.5 is mono block, which means you will need 2 of them to drive each of your 1038 Be. IMHO XA30.5 (stereo, not mono) is plenty good enough for 1038 Be. Don't be fooled by it's 30 watts class A rating. Stereophile measurement shows it can go up to 130wpc into 8ohm in class A/B before clipping (THD > 0.1%). Besides, watts power rating is only half the story of an amp's ability. Many people has experience XA30.5 driving difficult loads due to its current output. Your 1038 Be is definitely NOT considered difficult load at all.
Again, like I said, X250.5 should be a great choice as well if your budget allows it. You only said $8k budget for ALL of your electronics. In that case, I would not go with X250.5, only because it'd only leave you with $2k for the rest of your needs (preamp + dac + transport + cables + reclocker).
I'm not familiar with Modwright or NAD. But Modwright seems to be a good company with quality products. You probably cannot go wrong with it. Only thing is just to make sure you get HT by-pass (to integrate either AVR or processor for your HT) with the integrated amp you purchase.
From your list, either of MBL, Modwright or Luxman could work. MBl7006 is their entry-level integrated. But I do not know if they have HT by-pass. I personally would not go for Simaudio, I heard their amp/cdp before and not my cup of tea.
I strongly suggest you talk to a Parasound dealer if you want to stay within $8k budget for your whole system. Do not underestimate amp/pre-amp matching. If you aren't experienced, it is better to get same brand for amp and preamp. |
Hi Pelo,
If you have the budget, then go for XA60.5 (but I'm pretty sure XA30.5 is enough for your 93db 8ohm speakers). You cannot go wrong with Pass XA.5 series.
No, if you have a DAC with volume control, you don't need a pre (using a pre is YMMV. I personally prefer with a pre). But you should look for a DAC with analog volume control instead of a digital one.
NAD M51 DAC ($2k) is a good choice.
If $$ not a concern, this is what I'd like for your system.
1038 Be speakers
Pass XA60.5 amp
Pass XP-10 pre
Audio Research DAC8 (or NAD M51)
Empirical Audio Off-ramp USB to coaxial converter (reclocker/ de-jitterer)
Mac Mini with flash drive and power supply upgrade (Amarra or Pure Music software)
Grover Huffman ICs, digital cable, speaker cables and power cords |
Hi Pelo,
Mac mini can wait. I was just laying out what I think is an incredible set of gears to bring out the true potential of 1038 Be. If you already have a PC with optical out, I'd rather buy a reclocker first to clean up the jitter first (as mentioned in a previous thread, $600 Empirical Audio Synchro-mesh reclocker will make it very worthwhile).
Most DAC don't have a built-in pre, what they have is volume control, mostly digital. Benchmark dac1 pre may be what you are seeking, DAC + an analog volume control (I prefer analog volume control than digital one).
You could try out Simaudio integrated but not my cup of tea. This is what fascinating about this hobby. Not being my taste should have no bearing on what you'd like. Try it if the price is within your comfortable range, you might like it and think "what the hack kzhtoo is talking about".
This is exactly what I've been saying. You are new..no need to go overboard on the amp. Pass XA30.5 is more than enough for your efficient 93db 1038 Be. Used price is around $3.5k here on A'gon. And there's always Parasound, you can get A21, a well reviewed performer, for under $2k, excellent starting point!
$1.2k Metrum Octave will give you 90% of NAD M51. Your money your decision. If you're looking for under $1k, there are plenty to choose from. If you want a volume control with your DAC, go with Benchmark.
Also, may be a good idea to re-read this entire thread. What you thought a couple of weeks ago might not be what you think right now. I'm sure you have been researching and gained some knowledge. |
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