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The Richard Clark "all amps sounds the same" test


Okay, I know there has been tons of commentary on this issue, but I have a specific question. And it will make it clear why I'm posting this amp question in the speaker threads.

I'm curious if anyone knows if Maggie 20.1s or something equally hard to drive and equally transparent has been tested? I know planars have been used on his test, but I don't know any details.

Oh - for those who don't have any idea what I'm talking about see:

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/rcrules.htm
and
http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

and if you google it there is almost endless commentary on it.

Okay - but I want to test the following:

Magnepan 20.1s
Pass Labs X350.5 or XA160.5
Pass Labs Pre? (Don't care as much)
EmmLabs CD Player

Then, we need a low-cost amp. Now, the trouble is, he has a reasonable request in his test, each amp has to be used within its thresholds, so no using them at 300 watts when one is rated at 30 watts. Obviously with one clipping and the other one not clipping you will hear a difference.

This also applies to a 4-ohm speaker. So, assuming someone hasn't done an extremely similar test and can just tell us the difference, the next question is what is the worst amplifier that is rated at 4 ohms? While the X350.5 is high-power, the test could be done at 85 db, so you don't need too many watts to make that work.

This would effectively answer all the "maggies need high power to by dynamic" and lots of other similar questions. Because the test is at one db level, does one amp really push more bass out of them than another?

Hey - actually wouldn't Tympani IVs be harder to drive? Maybe we should use Tympani's :).

What do people think, is this issue still alive or has someone resolved these issues? I have to think I could hear the difference and may have my wife run some singly-blind tests for me - I don't have any of the equipment above, but do have 3.6s and an Aleph 5. See how that Aleph sounds compared to some sort of $100 amp rated at 4 ohms.

Might there be a 4-ohm rated amp in a boombox or bookshelf system? I'll poke around. Sure a single op-amp chip in a bookshelf system (often what $100 system amps consist of, just a few chips) would sound worse than a Pass Labs Aleph, which Stereophile said compared to the Levinson 300 lb amps?

Oh - and the essence of my idea with this test is that perhaps the sound is 'more similar' on speakers that are easier to drive, but with 20.1s - and this is just as important - with a highly resolving ribbon speaker - the difference might become more apparent.

Oh - also, I'm not sure if he allows me to choose the music, but I have found over the years certain parts of certain passages that show the differences of components more than others. I think that would also be important - what passages are played, as on some I would believe the differences would be impossible/difficult to detect.

If I'm just repeating stuff that can be found elsewhere let me know... Just seems like we should be able to bust this test.
lightminer

Showing 3 responses by mrtennis

mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
hi lightminer:

what differnce does it make if you do or do not detect differences ?

people will still buy amp a instead of amp b, regardless of the outcome of this test.

at best it is an academic exercise. at worse, it is a pointless exercise.

this test will have no affect upon purchases of components.
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
the alleged differneces between amps , following the restrictions established by mr clark, are irrelevant with respect to purchasing an amplifier.

if i am considering two amplifiers, a conrad johnson mv 125 adn some current solid state amp, i believe i will prefer one over the other all of the time.

in this case it is possible that the cj amp does not meet the criteria for a fair comparison.

it doesn't matter, because i would use the cj amp with a panel speaker and prefer it to any solid state amp anyone could provide.

my point is, in the real world of amplifiers, some tube amps will not sound the same as some solid state amps, for whatever reason.
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
hi drubin:

tou posed a (hypothetical) challenge on 8/01/08. i apologize for not answering:

here is my answer;

you can not prove the null hypothesis. this means that you cannot prove the hypothesis :

all amplifiers sound the same

ignoring the practicality of all combinations of pairs of amplifiers, induction is not definitive or absolute proof.

the exception can disprove the rule.

after doing n blind tests and, say, hearing no differences between two amplifiers, you may hear a difference in test n+1.

lightminer:

what i have stated attests to the futility of testing amplifiers. as many amps as you test, it may be possible to hear differences between a pair of amps, yet to be tested.
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