The Great Cryo'd Outlet Test

Psychicanimal...That will be very easy to measure. You're on!

Was Leonardo da Vinci an engineer, or an artist? Is the Eiffel tower an engineering feat, or a work of art?

I did an initial round of listening tests, and, not to keep you all in suspense, I did not (so far) hear any effect attributable to the cryo’d outlet. Following is a description of what I did.

1. Some say that ac power is most important for low level source equipment. The first test was simple: just power the Denon 2900 DVD player and Rotel 1066 with the cryo’d outlet, and play my best disc through the whole multichannel rig. (The Rotel circuitry is almost all bypassed in discrete multichannel mode: it serves only as volume control). I could hear no difference with the cryo’d outlet.

2. I realized that I could cut my rig down to stereo without rearranging a lot of equipment. I turned off the rear amps and the center front amp. I used the cryo’d outlet to power the two CarverPro ZR1600 digital power amps for the left and right MG1.6 and their associated subwoofers. Then I played the Stereo programs of several SACD. Repeated the exercise with regular outlet/ cryo’d outlet/regular outlet…etc. No difference.

By the way, neither outlet warmed up enough to be detected. Temperature of both outlet boxes was measured while they were being used with a thermometer…62 degrees which was the cellar temperature at the time.

3. Next, I turned off all the front amps, and fed the front L and R signals into the rear amps, Kenwood LO7M monoblocks that are fairly conventional ss amps. The rear speakers are also conventional MTM boxes, Madisound Odin. I powered the amps with cryo’d and non cryo’d outlet. No difference.

I selected discs to play as follows.
Multichannel test…Tacet DVD D107..Mozart Flute Quartets. Awesome audiophile quality.
Stereo SACD…Pentatone PTC 5186 024 Beethoven Piano Sonatas. Good clear recording appropriate for stereo.
Stereo SACD…Telarc SACD 60579 “The Sound of Glory”
Massive Chorus, Orchestra, Organ.
CD, Eva Cassidy, “Live at Blues Alley” Female vocalist. Recording with good ambience and “low level detail”.
I would still like to do one test of the “scientific” variety. I will feed the two monoblock amps with the same signal, and tweek gains so as to minimize the difference signal between the two Hot power amp output terminals. (Ideally there should be no difference). Then I will plug one of the amps into the cryo’d outlet, and see if the difference signal changes. I will also listen to the difference signal, (with earphones) as the spectral content might change without affecting the voltage measurement. This test will plainly determine if the cryo’d outlet affects the electrical output of the power amp.

So I don’t think that a cryo’d outlet would be much use to me. Perhaps my 115 volt power is nice and clean. Maybe there is no RFI where I live. (I know that cell phones don’t work at my house). And maybe, just maybe, the cryo effect is psychological.

I wouldn't hazard a guess one way or the other about strings. Their properties would be changed by cryo, but the sound is emitted more by the sounding box of the instrument than by the strings themselves. The strings excite the box (or other resonant element of the instrument). Perhaps the string tension would be affected by cryo, but the retensioned string would perform the same.

Bigjoe...I guess I agree that I am "into" digital, and I will use a digital amp, as well as a conventional solid state one, or two.

As to speakers, I will try some conventional box speakers (Madisound Odin 7" MTM, or Dynaudio Gemini) as well as the MG1.6.

I am only "into" vinyl in the sense that I did it for many years and still have what I consider a good playback system. I had not planned to use it as a source, as my digital sources are (IMHO) cleaner. However, the phono preamp is an outboard unit (PS Audio II, featuring super low noise transistors and passive RIAA equalization) and I can easily plug this into the Cryo'd outlet and give it a listen.

In general I intend to test using stripped down simple systems, so as to not confuse the Cryo/nonCryo comparison.
No biamping or subwoofing. Minimal interconnects.

Sorry for the delay guys. We are involved with two weddings in the first half of April, so I really can't rip up the living room just yet. Keep the faith!

Stehno...Sure I will redirect the outlets to you, but I don't have an address. E-Mail to me.

Maxgain...As a "scientist" whose specialty has been the design of tests for complex military electromechanical equipment (missile guidance systems) I am really anxious to do a fair and objective evaluation. This is to satisfy MYSELF. To hell with what anyone else thinks, although it would be nice if they agree.

I would think that differences would be most clearly heard in a simple system, and my rig does not fit that description.
It is multichannel
Fronts (three MG1.6) are biamped with 3 subwoofers systems.
Each subwoofer system has two drivers, each with their own amp.
Rears are Madisound Odin speakers, driven (at the moment) by Kenwood LO7M monoblocks.

Using this equipment, and a range of other stuff (which audiophiles tend to accumulate) eg: Dynaudio speakers, B&W speakers, Adcom amps...) I can put together several straightforward stereo systems, covering a variety of equipment types. For example, we will look at digital amps as well as conventional ones. Sorry, no tubes. Each system will be compared using the cryo'd outlet and the identical non-cryo'd outlet, that I have mounted side by side in a box. I will also try to make some electrical measurements, but I don't know if my home test equipment is good enough.

I do have a second system, for HT, a Panasonic SA-XR25 digital receiver and some reasonable inwall speakers. I can easily plug this into the Cryo'd outlet and see what happens. I will try it, but I don't think that this system is good enough to resolve any small improvement.

Maxgain...I wonder why you think that being a scientist prevents one from being an artist? I consider myself an artist who likes to eat. Also, remember that an artist must be first a technician. How many fine paintings have been lost because the canvas was improperly prepared or the paint was inferior quality.

Subaruguru...Glad you agree with my thought that a simple system would be the best test.

I agree that "double-blind" would be good... too good, I fear, for some "believers". However, as stated previously, I am doing this experiment for myself, not to convince others, and I will try hard not to fool myself (which can be a problem, but I know that).

One idea that might interest people is to ship the electrical box that I put together with the cryo'd and non-cryo'd outlets around the group of interested people, and have everyone vote as to which outlet (labeled "A" and "B") is the cryo'd one. I don't think there is any way to tell them apart by looking, and at the moment only I know which is which. After everyone votes I will let the cat out of the bag.

Comments?

Thanks for not beating up on me too much because I don't hear an effect. This was an initial report. I ain't done yet.

1. The initial multichannel test, with the cryo powering only source electronics, was an attempt to do a test with minimal change to my regular (well known) system.

2. If it takes several days of operation on the cryo outlet for a difference to be audible I can't do the test. My auditory memory is not that good.

By the way, on one cut of the Eva Cassidy CD I did find it necessary to go back and forth a few times before I finally concluded that there was no difference. It is not easy to make this kind of subjective decision. That is why a definitive answer would require extensive double-blind testing.

3. As yet, to my surprise, no one has complained about use of a digital source. I intend to play some vinyl, and I will experiment with power to the outboard phono stage.

Any other suggestions?

Quite apart from my cryo evaluation project, let me point out that the notion that cryo treatment might affect sound generation began with treatment of brass instruments, like trumpets. Now cryo treatment is just another form of heat treatment, extending to lower temperature ranges, and heat treatment has been used for thousands of years to modify the properties of metals. It makes perfectly logical scientific sense that cryo treatment would change the timbre of a brass instrument. Where we went off the scientific tracks (IMHO) is to think that elements of an audio system that are not making sound by vibrating, but merely performing an electronic function can introduce sonic changes when cryo treated.

Hdm...Sure. Will ship to Stehno if someone gives me an address.

The Cryo'd outlet was in a carboard box, the other was not. I have mounted the two outlets in two electrical boxes, marked "A" and "B". One outlet had all four terminal screws, while the other had only two. I removed the extra screws (and put them in a plastic bag) so I don't think that anyone can tell one outlet from the other just by looking at them. I will ship the whole rig on to the next guy. When all the testing is done Hdm will have a handy heavy duty extension cord!

Of course I know whether the Cryo'd outlet is "A" or "B". I guess I will put this info in a sealed envelope and send it to Hdm to do what he likes with it. Obviously, people who test the outlets should not know. (Hdm might like to test his ears before opening the envelope).

Of course, if many people ran the test, guesswork would produce 50 percent correct choice. But perhaps more, or less. It would be interesting to take a poll without anyone listening, so that what you are guessing is eldartford's frame of mind, and whether he would tend to label the cryo'd outlet "A" or "B". This might introduce a significant bias into listening test results.

Hdm and Stehno...Ok. I will dismount both outlets from the boxes, put the extra screws back into the outlet they came in, and ship the outlets, and the box (empty) on to Stehno. He will not know which outlet is Cryo'd. Of course I do. If I had claimed to hear an effect, my claim would be suspect. I don't think that knowing which is which has any significance in context of a claim to hear nothing.

I still have a bit more to do in my evaluation. Will let you know when I ship the stuff.

Psychicanimal...No, I wouldn't do that, and I don't think Hdm did it to me. If beliefs require deceit to support them, I am not interested.

Two points that ought not to be forgotten.

1. I am doing this experiment to satisfy myself, not to convince anyone else. It all came about because, when I expressed doubt about Cryo benefits, the usual refrain "you can't have an opinion unless you have listened" was thrown at me. I said that I couldn't justify the expense of a Cryo outlet to test an idea which I thought was invalid. Hdm called my bluff, and offered the outlets. How could I refuse to give it a fair test?

2. I do not deny that some people may hear an effect from cryo'd outlets. I just believe that the effect is due to psychological factors.

Psychicanimal...I wish there was a way to test you on this issue. You are so very strong in your belief in cryo that, should you guess wrong, the fall would be spectacular!

Psychicanimal...Sure, but would you have the guts to submit to blind testing conducted by someone who doesn't subscribe to your belief?

If not, I do understand. Sometimes it is best not to test articles of faith that have great importance to us. Cold facts can be hard to take.

Psychicanimal...Got it! Frankly, your comments are indistinguishable from those who...whatever.

It's over.

I have tried the Cryo'd outlet with every kind of audio equipment that I have (no tubes) and am unable to hear, or measure, any difference between the Cryo's outlet and the plain one. The best test (IMHO) was driving two identical monoblock amplifiers with the same (mono) signal, and listening to the output bridged across the two amps. Ideally there should be no differential signal, but gain and frequency response cannot be perfectly matched, so there is always some faint differential output. The sonic quality of this differential output, (many dB down from the amplifier output) is identical when one of the amps is powered first by Cryo'd and then by non-Cryo'd outlets.

I consider my experiment a success, not because it confirms what science would predict, but because I can no longer be accused of not using my ears. I gave it a good shot.

I have packed up the outlets to be mailed back to HDM. My thanks to him for the oportunity to evaluate this tweek.

Hdm and Stehno....Some facts...

There is zero chance that I mixed up the outlets which I received (although I have no way, except trust, to know what I was given). I was, of course, aware of the risk of mixup, and took suitable precautions.

The screws were removed and placed in the plastic bag when I first received the outlets. I thought that the "two screw" outlet might be a way of telling which was which, although I guess Hdm did something more clever than that!

On the back of each outlet I marked "A" and "B" just in case the little slips of paper got lost.

Both sides of both outlets were "burned in" on the refrigerator. (That's why it took so long).

I am 90 percent sure that the Cryo'd outlet was the one with two sets of screws. I didn't think to note this carefully, as I didn't think the screws were significant. The extra screws were simply removed: no chance that screws were switched between outlets.

The outlets were sent to Stehno labeled "A" and "B". A sealed envelope contains the key.

Stehno...Don't you think it's more fun not to know which one is Cryo'd? Make your best guess, and then open the envelope! But don't get too excited...your odds are 50/50. We would need to get a couple of dozen more folk to play the game before the results would be meaningful.

Stehno...As I said in an earlier post, there is a 50 percent chance of guessing right, or wrong, so one guy's test doesn't prove much, one way or the other.

What I take away from this is:
(a)...(as I said before) I made a serious effort to see if I could hear any effect and can no longer be accused of not listening.
(b)...If there is any effect it is definitely not the dramatic "jaw dropping" improvement that some folk suggest.

The "ice-brewed beer" method of increasing alcohol content is an age old method, best known for Jersey Lightning. This is fermented apple cider which you put out the window in the fall so that the water freezes. Then you pour off the liquid residue, which contains a high proportion of alcohol.

Cryo is just a form of heat treatment, used to alter the physical properties of a substance, usually metal. Cryo treatment of a brass instrument like a trumpet will change its timbre, as will other forms of heat treatment. Interestingly, I am quite willing to believe that cryo treatment of vinyl recordings may affect their sonic quality. For better or worse I don't know. The vinyl flexes a good deal as the stylus traces the groove, and if the vinyl were made stiffer, or more flexible, the sound would change.

Zaikesman...Further comment"? I think you pretty much put the lower resistance argument to bed in the posting above. I might only add that citing lowered resistance as an advantage of Cryo is, in general, the kind of misapplied science that, once revealed, tends to discredit an idea rather than to support it. Many years ago I learned that when the Jehovah’s Witnesses pay a call, it's a complete waste of time to argue with them. Who knows...in the end they might turn out to be correct, but in the meanwhile, I'll take a pass. So too with Cryo.

As if I haven't made enough enemies (not really) by skepticism about Cryo, I now declare that almost all power conditioning is unnecessary for equipment with properly designed power supply circuitry. The audio circuits see only DC that has been made from the AC power, and this DC can be rock steady and noise-free even if the input AC is noisy and distorted. To make this happen is the job of the power supply circuitry. I am sure that we have all noted the ability of a power amp to play on for several seconds after the plug is pulled out of the wall. For the first second this most drastic AC power disturbance usually has zero audible effect.

Now, about flying saucers...