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Surface Noise - another question

On a scale of 1 to 10, my surface noise is about a '1' (1 is low, 10 is high). I have a TNT Jr. w/super platter and upgraded flywheel motor (VPI belts), JMW 10.0 arm, a Benz Glider (High output-not the new 'S' - about 8 years old but probably only 200 hrs on it), Cardas Phono cables, and an innersound phono stage (not set to high gain, 47k ohms, 100 micro farad capacatance setting). I use the Living Voice Carbon record mat and BDR record clamp. I am referring to basically new records, cleaned w/VPI 16.5 with Walker Audio 3 step (or Needle Dr fluid), and Milty Zero Stat. Stylus is always cleaned with either magic eraser or Needle Dr. or the Zero Dust and cartridge is recently degaussed. Rig is as perfectly leveled as possible, on a Billy Bags Pro Stand. VTF set to high side of mfg recommendation - 2.2 grams; speed dead on (VPI SDS, KAB Strobe), VTA is dialed in as all is in focus and azimuth must be pretty close to dead on as my soundstage is spot on. Here is my question - how can I get the surface noise down? (I have heard rigs with NO surface noise). Assuming records are in as perfect condition as you can get, do you think it is the cartridge that is giving me the little surface noise; phono stage? Other? (New TT?)

Appeciate the input of the vinyl gurus - I'm sure you have the answer.
128x128cerrot

Showing 4 responses by mapman

mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
Only some records in near perfect condition deliver virtually no surface noise.

For most records in the real world, surface noise is part of the game. If you do not hear it on a particular rig, then either it (along with part of the actual recorded signal) is being filtered or the record is a particularly good one in particularly good condition.

Surface noise can be tricky to distinguish from other kinds of background noise that can result from the system itself. Surface noise is typically more variable from record to record and also at different locations on a particular record where as other types of system induced background noise will be heard more consistently regardless of what is playing.
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
If the issue is surface noise, an upgrade will accomplish nothing except decrease your funds.

If the issue is with the gear not performing well and creating noise, then fix it but be sure to isolate where the noise is coming from beforehand otherwise your efforts may be in vain.

Do not believe anybody who tells you their vinyl is as quiet as CDs. Their vinyl may be exceptionally quiet (for vinyl) but will never match CD in this regard. Anybody who says it can or does is either deluded and/or has hearing issues.
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
"Have found that when my vinyl rig is dialed in including VTA & VTF, that the surface noise is less than when not optimized."

No doubt a properly tracking stylus will produce less noise.

In this case, the noise may occur when the stylus is operating in the groove, but in this case the issue is again the setup of the gear producing more noise while tracking the groove, not surface noise inherent in the record.
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
The rigs may be dead quiet but records as a whole are not.

CDs are dead quiet pretty much all of the time.

Again good quality records in good shape may be very quiet to the extent that noise is a non-issue but these represent only a portion of records out there today as a whole.

I do not understand how anybody can deny these facts?

Also, I do not think the quantitatively measured noise levels of even the best phono rigs can match that of even average CD equivalents. I could be wrong but I think this is something that is substantiated by specifications and measurements even if too subtle to be apparent to many human ears perhaps.
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