@audiom3 Prior to inserting Opticalrendu I had diasy chained SOTM SMS200Neo to Uptone usb regen, I had gone back and forth any number of times leaving Uptone out or replacing, always preferred the daisy chain. I then inserted Opticalrendu forgetting that I still had Uptone in chain. Listened in daisy chain configuration for couple sessions when suddenly realizing still had Uptone (by the way powered by lps) connecting to dac. Pulled it out and shazam, so far better, even lower noise floor, and most importantly newfound sense of ease and relaxation. My digital now may match or nearly match my vinyl setup in this area, along with much higher resolving powers (need more updates on vinyl side). The Uptone was obviously putting a slight veil and masking the ease of OR. I've now removed from my chain one switch, two ethernet cables and two lps, so less complex with far better sq.
@ddafoe My ethernet solution cable was all Audioquest Vodka, my optical solutions, even with generic fmc and one ethernet conversion bested ethernet solution
I was also recently made aware of a another formerly unknown to me optical solution with the following, https://ediscreation.com/product/fiber-box/ This may be solution for me upstream of server.
For the ethernet fans here, I'm not stating with absolute certainty optical superior to ethernet, but so far my optical setups have been superior, others seem to concur with this view. I certainly hear far more deeply into recordings, and I've not heard any sound signature or flavor added with optical. Thus far my optical explorations have gone further than ethernet, the Eno may still be in my future if I wish to compare ethernet under more favorable conditions.
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@mitch2 I see you're using FMC in front of Bonn switch and server, the most advantageous placement would be after, just before dac. Servers create noise, usb coming out of motherboard is not optimal. Have you ever tried this positioning of FMC? I've always found network upgrades most effective at tail end of network.
You should also compare Eno and FMC both between server and dac
I'd like to see direct comparison of Eno vs FMC with Sonore Opticalrendu. I was seriously considering Eno filter, went with Opticalrendu based on it being only means of one hundred percent isolation. The rendu was substantial improvement on TPLink FMC powered by lps.
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@docknow Tail end is system end. The last noise producing component would be server or streamer, everything up to input to dac. Opticalrendu serves this purpose by eliminating noise at the last possible position in chain, it is usb renderer, streamer and network noise eliminator all in one.
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There are three issues at hand. Quality of usb out of server/streamer, combining processes within one box and separating server from streamer, aka two computer solution.
Many servers don't optimize usb out, take usb directly out from motherboard, this is subject to all the noise created from the many processes on motherboard. Now, some servers optimize usb out such as the Mojo with JCAT card or some may use Pink Faun, that takes care of that issue. As a matter of fact, I was contemplating the Mojo server as possible candidate for eventual replacement of my present server until Benjamin notified me he will no longer be manufacturing.
Next issue is single computer or server/streamer solution. In this case many more processes taking place within singular component, more noise means less resolution. Dividing up the processes between two components, separate server and streamer means less noise generated within each component. While that may be of some benefit, the greater benefit as I see it is the ability to optimize your network post server. With separate server one can do FMC or Eno post server where it does most good. Prior to server isn't treating noise generated within server and or server/streamer all in one unit.
With Opticalrendu one gets FMC, quality streamer and usb renderer all in one package. Noise eliminated with FMC, many choices of what to stream and usb optimization. One Femto clock is for network side, other Femto clock for usb, proprietary circuit board optimized for low noise.
As previously mentioned I've also modified my server for direct ethernet out which means no more detour back through another ethernet cable and switch. More direct path means less chance for noise to enter chain.
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These results not surprising, unique results with unique setups. I bet you'd do better with the Acoustic Network ethernet cables, this based on other's reviews of them. I've also experienced the benefits of better ethernet cables, having gone from generic through Supra, Wireworld and various Audioquest, finally settled on AQ Vodka as best in my setup. While ethernet cables may not have provided greatest benefit, they are still worthwhile investment.
I'll still maintain the most beneficial network improvements come post server, which means two computer setup, aka separate server feeding usb renderer/roon endpoint/streamer.
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@lalitk You couldn't get much more clutter free than server with optical out to streamer/usb renderer with optical in to dac.
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I'd say add to our streaming knowledge and try, I still think much to be learned.
I hope to have most or all of my questions about streaming answered by end of year. I know someone who is in process of diy build, aka self assembly of nearly state of art server/streamer, based on final spec this will be equivalent to off the shelf server in price range of $10k-$20k. It is based on full size atx motherboard, will run windows or linux os, have enough processing engine to run HQPlayer with highest level DSP, folded into Roon, which means it can be run sans HQPlayer or with no DSP engaged. Industrial spec RAM and SSD. Ports will include optical, at least two ethernet, USB off motherboard, hopefully, USB off PInk Faun or JCAT, and high end lps.
With this server will be able to compare HQPlayer processing at any level vs no processing. With the optical port it can be used with Sonore Opticalrendu or some other optical capable streamer or streamer/dac. With direct ethernet out it can be used with ethernet streamer/usb renderer/Roon endpoint or streamer/dac. With two choices of USB, motherboard vs onboard usb rendering directly into dac can be compared. By the way, I consider the direct off motherboard usb the greatest flaw with the vast majority of off the shelf servers, this will directly compare that to optimized USB, these boards are $1200-$2500 each and are reportedly worth all the money, here's link to discussion, https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/jcat-usb-xe-or-pink-faun-ultra-ocxo.32332/
I've been doing self builds of general service computers for years, music server are simply general service computers optimized as music players only. The vast majority use off the shelf motherboards,processors, ssd, RAM, etc., some have custom built lps and some upgraded ports. The only bespoke servers that exist are something like Taiko Extreme and Wadax Reference, may be others I'm unaware of. These are truly one of a kind, fully engineered from scratch servers and likely worth every penny for those that can afford. Mike Levine here, I believe has posted on both. I only wish this build could be on that level. The vast majority of sub $10k servers I've looked at don't have the necessary processing engine to run HQPlayer at highest processing levels, don't use industrial grade RAM or SSD, have less than optimal port availability and/or those ports not fully optimized, and not all that impressive lps. Going the self build route allows one to build a much better server at a reasonable price, not saying the off the shelf servers not worth the money, only comparing business models here. Self build uses free R&D, free labor, no marketing costs, no profit margin. For many opportunity cost estimates or lack of computer building experience may make self build prohibitive. This is not meant to dis on off the shelf, these servers provide value to those purchasing them.
Anyway, we will listen and compare various configurations of this server, hopefully it will be finished by early spring. I will then build my own server based on my particular needs. Listening tests will hopefully help me determine the exact components I will use in my build. This endeavor will test my theories that separate server, streamer and optical isolation solutions are optimal. It will also have allowance for multi optimized ports which will make this server maximally versatile, many different streamers and or streamer/dacs will be able to optimally connect to server.
While the above will test server to dac leg of network, what comes in front of server remains to be tested in like manner.
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@antigrunge2 Exactly, my experience as well. Still, my search is on for the most efficient means to extract maximum sound quality. My present thoughts along this line is server with optical out capability into streamer or streaming dac with optical in capability.
I'd also add complexity vs maximizing simplicity is a trade off. More complexity means more cables, connectors, devices, power supplies, all can generate, be conduits or allow leakage in of EMI/RFI. Greater separation of devices at the same time may theoretically decrease this same noise. I have Trifield Meter and the greatest generation of RFI comes from server/computer motherboards, transformers of all kinds and storage devices such as ssd and hard drives. Put these all under one roof, not good.
Paradoxically, the best solution should be something in between the two extremes. While I'd like to see power supplies, and perhaps storage in separate enclosures, I wouldn't mind seeing optimized usb within servers which may negate need for all kinds of usb thingies, or separate streamers for that fact. They could also offer clean ethernet inputs within servers, devices like Uptone Etherregen wouldn't have to be separate and external. Storage could also be well shielded within server, eliminating the need for NAS or USB external storage. Having the ethernet and usb optimized within a single server also serves to eliminate possible clocking incompatibility, per what you mentioned above.
I do think the Taiko Extreme and Wadax servers address all my requests, minimal devices and maximum sound quality all under one roof. Unfortunately, this comes at prohibitive price for most of us!
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@lalitk There are two different audiences here, yes, basics important to those just venturing into streaming, for the more mature streamers this is explorative information. I see no harm in trying and reporting on every single streaming device available. This only adds to knowledge base, most mature streamers can read between the lines and determine for themselves the veracity of those reporting on these devices and the devices themselves.
Trying to limit discussion to only devices and setups that meet some subjective base line is only censorship. I for one like to hear about many setups, so keep the experiments and reviews coming.
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@lalitk I see, you've learned all there is needed to be learned. And yes, I will carry on.
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The end of production for DejaVu was bummer for me, JCAT usb major calling card for me.
Debjit_J, interesting you found JCAT superior to Fiber NIC, wonder if fiber prior to server had bearing on this? It may also be what comes after usb or fiber out of your server has something to do with it? Assume your taking usb out of server straight to dac. What does fiber out go to?
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@debjit_g Forgot to mention, I have second ethernet port on my server, so I can do FMC without having to go through an added switch in network.
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@debjit_g That seems like logical explanation, I suspect the modified Sonore Opticalmodule within Small Green Computer SonicTransporter Optical I9 would provide better isolation from motherboard. Unfortunately, this doesn't provide for optimal usb out. I want the choice of both optimized fiber and usb with my next server, diy may be only solution for me. I'd have difficult choice between Pink Faun and JCAT.
Also, I presume having to go back through Buffalo switch with fiber vs. direct to dac with usb would have bearing on your preference.
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Yes, future experiments will absolutely compare optimized optical and usb comparisons, also, one computer vs two computer setups. I'd also like to try return to Audirvana, compare with Roon and Roon/ HQPlayer. When I first changed over from previous iteration of Audirvana (prior to Studio) to Roon was quite sure I preferred Audirvana. Also thining to try Euphony Stylus endpoint vs Roon endpoint.
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As debjit_g mentioned above, conversion of optical back to ethernet is somewhat detrimental, place for noise to re-enter network. And the boards in generic FMC are not optimum. Understanding this is what motivated me to upgrade to Opticalrendu.
Still, I did find two generic FMC preferable to my less than optimal ethernet chain. It would be good to continue to hear from folks who've compared optimized optical vs optimized ethernet chain. Prior to purchasing opticalrendu I planned on adding Eno after second FMC, this based on speaking with Rich at NA in regard to best placement in my particular setup. I still may purchase as I could remove opticalrendu, go to Eno connecting to SOTM SMS200Neo or use upstream of server with optical remaining between server and streamer.
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Ignorance is bliss, so they say.
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@glory That is one nice serverr! Always impressed by Antipodes technology, they understand how to optimize various outputs on their servers, not many do. Also have slightly different take on power supplies.
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I've just been in contact with Rich, spoke with him about issues with audiophile switch I tried. Based on his input and good reviews here will be trying Eno filter in place of switch.
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@testrun I've been curious about this exact comparison for some time. Presently have Opticalrendu powered by Uptone JS2, have OpticalModule on order (supposed to ship in July) to replace generic FMC powered by lps I will have NA Muon in house sometime in August. At present, using two generic FMC both powered by lps in front of server, optical after. Not exactly happy with the two FMC prior to server, Muon will substitute.
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