Speaker recomendation

You have a couple of good options, the Tekton’s are a great value, they are however, ugly as sin and are a very boxy looking speaker, we have heard them at two seperate demos and the speakers do a lot of things well but are a bit on the recessed side. 

You can get a pair of Legacy Focus for $10k and they move a lot of air, have very deep bass and are very efficient 95.6db and they sound fantastic for all music. The Legacy’s are quite attractive for a good sized speaker and can come in many different veneers so you and your wife can find something that you both like.

The Golden Ear Reference are a decent choice they are a love or hate in terms of their looks and sound quality, we have heard them Golden Ear Reference twice and both times were not blown away.

You need a big speaker with prodigous bass, which means a physically large speaker, you can go the other route and use subwoofers, but then you have an acoustic integration issue as well as one or two large and ugly boxes in your living room.

As per amplifier, you can most likely find a nice power amp to use with your integrated and viola you have a nice new setup.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

The Acoustic Zen are okay speakers and were never worth their original price point we heard them on numerous shows. Also they are not 96db efficient so they are not going to play as loudly as easily to fill up a large room as the Legacy's. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Soix, way too many people have over inflated opinions of products that are mearly okay, that they for whatever reason they personally love. 

You may think this applies to us as well but if you examine our product portfollio our products are mostly main line well respected manufacturers that can provide proper service and support as well as making some of the best sounding and top rated products in the industry at their respective price points, we sell: Kef, Dali, Paradigm, Legacy, ATC, ELAC, Cabasse, PSB, JL Audio, the only really micro sized company we endorse is the Rethems, which we got for their sound quality and novel steam punk look. 

In the past we had Acoustic Zen, Jantzen, Usher, Esoteric, Amphion, Polymer Audio, Escalante, and System Audio, Gradient, and probably a few other brands we forgot about. 

We hear way too many times a recommendation based on some weird product from a company that has not really received the kinds of universal accolades that a product of the price range should receive.

That is not to say that the review based world is purly objective but when a companies products are so rarely shown or reviewed or owned or raved by many reviewers it has a lot to say about the company.

We used to sell Acoustic Zen cables and speakers although we did not sell the more expensive Crescendo we did sell the lesser model. 

We had them on display and they were good speakers but in the annuls of audio for a $4k price point there are a lot of other companies products we would prefer to own and recommend.

The AZ cables were good, better then the Harmonic Technologies cables but in term the AZ cables were bettered by Audiquest, and Nordost and Wireworld cables which we moved into later.

Soix you miss the point, there are other posters who have talked about products we don't sell and we tell them sure go check them out like the Focal Sopras, and the Magico A3. 

If you look at the myriad of loudspeaker choices too  many weird difficult or impossible speakers to demo makes potential buyers loopy.

As per recommending Legacy, at least they have displaying dealers not that many but if you look at their dealer page at least they have some decent dealers that someone may be able to actually drive to, please let me know how many displaying dealers throughout the country have AZ loudspeakers available for demo?

Soix if you noticed we said the AZ speakers were okay that doesn't mean we think they are terrrible but ask yourself if the speakers were new would you shell out $25k for a set and even at $12k are there perhaps better alternatives. 

The likelyhood of us by endorsing Legacy is going to make the OP magically apear in our shop to purchase a pair is doubtful as the OP is probably on a different Coast then  us.

If you notice we have been recommending Legacy for years because they are a screaming bargain for the sheer quality and amount of sound quality for the money.  They belong in a rare class of high end audio  products which are a huge value for a hand made American product with really high quality European drivers.

Hope that helps understand our points.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ 

Soix you are entitled  to your opinion about us, but you are mistaken. 

The reaon we mention Legacy is that the Focus is one of the very few loudspeakers that is affordable and can play loud enough with enough bass to fill up a giant room and the speakers are attractive and they can be made in many different finish options to fit in with someone's decor and they sound fantastic and they are 95.5 db efficient.

The Tekton's would also work and are very inexpensive even the DI Se are only $6,500.00 and they would do the job nicely for this gentleman, the only issue with those is they are big and boxy and kind of ugly for most people''s Living Rooms and in our opinion the Tekton's are a bit recessed in the top end and detail department. 

We started with Legacy  for this very reason, high power handling, high efficiency, very deep bass, easy to drive and attractive with a huge sound stage and great detail how many $11k speakers offer all of these options? 

Of course the OP has to like them what is interesting is how many people have heard Legacy at shows and have been blown away by them. 

The other options are much more complicted and probably not Living Room/ Wife acceptable. 

One of the reasons why we post is the complete lack of understanding that many of the forum writters seem to lack.

Not everyone desires a set of giant subs in their Living Room, perhaps the OP doesn't mind but don't you think someone should ask that first?

Carmenc, we never bashed the Acoustic Zen's we didn't say they were terrible we said they are okay. Again if the Zen's were so wonderful you would be reading about them, people would be talking about them seems like they pretty much disappeared from the converstation a number of years ago.

"We hear way too many times a recommendation based on some weird product from a company that has not really received the kinds of universal accolades that a product of the price range should receive.
That is not to say that the review based world is purly objective but when a companies products are so rarely shown or reviewed or owned or raved by many reviewers it has a lot to say about the company."

This is a simple statement, it simply states that  great products generally gain market mommentum, when you can't find almost any mention of Acoustic Zen's products in years that is not a great sign that their products are competitive. 

Yes Soix, I am sure the OP is going to get on a plane and fly to our Jersey City office to purchase a pair of Legacy's from us. I highly doubt he is located near us so please explain how we are selling these speakers agian?

As per bashing Belles, we had Belles gear in house not this series and the sound was not remarkable. Again for all the Belles fan's what have you compared it to have you listened to our recommended amplifier that also has a lush  tube like sound better still it actually has tubes in it. 

Do you want to know of an Aria compettitor that sounds just like an Aria yet costs $600.00 less? It is called a Unison Reserach Primo an 80 watt tube solid state hybrid amp from Italy any of you guys like to do a shootout in our shop with an Aria. By the way, never said the Aria wasn't good we haven't heard one, just the last series which was nincely made but didn't wow us. 

You guys need to carefully read what we write. Saying a product is okay is not bashing it, okay means not bad but not great. 

Yes Carmec, all the brands we sell which are many of the major brands in audio are junk I guess, Conrad Johson, Manley Labs, Lumin, Aurender, Innuous, T+A, Electrcompaniet, Unison, KEF, KEF Reference, KEF Blades, Dali, PSB, Legacy, Quad, Paradigm, JL Audio, Micromega, and ATC, Mytek, Naim, Parasound, M2 Tech, Benz, Lyra, Acoustic Systems, April Music, Cary Audio, Rega, Nottingham, Anthem, Nuprime, Wireworld, Audio Magic, AQ, Nad, Aqua Hifi, and a number of others, yes these are junky brands, what you smoking? 

Before you jump to your erronous conclusions why don't you pick up the phone and actually talk to one of us and see if we can't guide you into better sound who knows you may actually like our suggestions.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Sorry boys, don’t see it. Soix facts is facts.

A product is either growing in the market or shrinking. Many people view a consensus on a product’s performance as one way to validate or weed out what they are going to purchase or look at.

Sure it is easy to say go look at x y or z that doesn’t mean the product is good or practical or will work for the poster.

Never said the AZ speakers or products were bad, and WE WERE DEALERS! So we had actual experience with their products and how they compared, we also heard the AZ speakers at a couple of shows as well for the Cresendos. In our opinion the Crecendos are decent speakers but I posed the question if you were currently in the market for a new set of speakers and at the $25k price point would you rush to find a AZ dealer or would you be looking for a Wilson, Magico, Rockport, KEF, Paradigm, Vandy?

You may think that we have an over in flated view of our products, the facts is that there are many respected dealers with the same products we have throughtout the country and most of our products are highly rated in the press, but if you managed to read what we said about press you would understand that point.

We were also accussed of bashing Belles, on the contrary we reported the facts that we did have the previous series of products and they were not remarkable, and that we did not hear the Aria.

We did point out that we have a very similar sounding highly rated tube integrated that may sound as good or better which sells for $600 less with a similar type of DNA, features and build quality. Again Soix that is not being arrogant look at what we actually said:

Do you want to know of an Aria compettitor that sounds just like an Aria yet costs $600.00 less? It is called a Unison Reserach Primo an 80 watt tube solid state hybrid amp from Italy any of you guys like to do a shootout in our shop with an Aria. By the way, never said the Aria wasn’t good we haven’t heard one, just the last series which was nincely made but didn’t wow us.

DID THAT SAY THAT THE UNISON SMOKES OR IS BETTER than the Aria, NO WE DIDN"T, we said sounds like an Aria, the Aria is known for a warm tube like presentation, guess what the Unison is a hybrid with tubes and it does indeed sound warm and tuby, and if we are not mistaken the Aria sells for $3k while the Unison is $2.4k and the Unison is 80 watts vs the Belles 75 watts, so these two pieces should be very competitive.

I hardly see the Belles boys ever talk about their experience’s vs other comparable products vs a Peachtree or a Unison or a shootout vs the Naim Atom. We did read the Aria review from the UK and it was a very good review.

As per the Othergreg, Wow, just wow. And that’s just one of the misguided attempts to "justify" his postings. @audiotroy, I appreciate your attempt to save me from myself, but you may just want to sit the rest of this one out.

No problem we sell some of the best a/v products on the market and have tested and sold more brands of a/v products than many, so we don’t have to worry about saving you from yourself.

As per the PR GUY the first rule of PR is no press is bad press. for all of you guys complaining of our bad behavior, for disparaging products we don’t sell, when if you actually read the post we never said either of the two products were bad, we get calls from people from all over the country that appreciate what a dealer with 30 plus years of experience and the fact that we sell many of the best products in one location means we know our products can bring to the table.

We assist way more people than you guys know, it is facinating how if you don’t agree

And lastly Soix,

It’s apparent to me now that @audiotroy is so arrogant and enamored of his own products that he actually doesn’t see how what he’s doing is wrong, or he’s so hell-bent on selling his products here that he doesn’t care. Either way, it’s bad.

Soix, It is not wrong to recommend a product that you are enamoured with especially when there are many other people who agree.

Arrogant would be saying tha the Legacy’s are better than everything else did you ever find us saying that? We laid out the facts why this speaker MAY be good for the OP but we also said that he has to like them.

We put it to you this way at least with Legacy the OP may be able to hear a pair how easy is it to hear the AZ?

and now to address your last point:

nd you think I’M the one missing the point here? SERIOUSLY??? You’re once again comparing speakers I recommended to the OP in a relatively negative light to the speakers you recommended here AND SELL!!! You should not be expressing negative opinions on other products and recommendations in any way while you’re promoting your own products here at the same time. PERIOD!!! It’s a pure conflict of interest that makes you look unethical and undermines your credibility here.

Please Soix grow up, all dealers and owners of products endorse what they sell or own, the fact that unless the OP flys over to our Store and listens to and then purchases a set of Legacy’s WE AREN"T SELLING ANYTHING!

Go back to what we wrote about why we endorse the Legacy’s and please let us know how many affordable speaker lines offer these attributes?

We know of Tekton, Golden Ear and that is pretty much it.

You also miss the other parts of this converation which is how easily can the OP hear the product? Will the company be in business 5 or 10 years from now and how easy will it be to move and service the product.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Tls any speaker that is 91 or 92 db is efficient, sure it may not be 96db or 101 db but that is still a high efficiency design compared with most of the industry's 85-89 db figures. 

Looked up the Athenas, although that speaker is more electrically efficient, you have one woofer with a much more limited amount of deep bass, the greater the room size the more bass energy you would need. The Legacy uses 2 12 inch long throw woofers with a 3db down point of 18hz so in reality would be much better suited to the task of driving this room.

The OP should see if he can locate a pair and take a listen.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Ricredi I can assure you the T+A gear is the real deal.

I am not surprised that you didn't like the setup, the Magico A3 are a much smaller sounding speaker with a much more reserved presentation than the more upbeat Monitor's you use. 

We have not heard the A3 but to our ears previous Magico's always sounded a bit boring. 

Bircorobit, Harbeths are lovely speakers that many people prize for their natural midrange and musical presentation, however, even the larger 40 are still not physically large enough to provide proper spl, and deep enough bass for this really large room.

The golden rule is the larger the physical volume of the room the larger the loudspeaker needs to be. 

Likely good canidates, used Kef Blades, Genesis, Legacy Focus or Aeris, used Wilson Sasha, Wilson X1,Dali Epicon 8, look for large 5-6 foot tall speakers, multiple woofers, and 90 plus sensitivity.

Tls49, we didn't like Legacy either, the older models with the yellow Kevlar midrange and the original ribbon tweeter were okay good loud party speakers, the newer models with the much better graphite composite midrange cone, and German Heil tweeer array are really good speakers. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Keoliphant, thank you so much for the kind words really appreciate it.

As per the PS Audio stuff, we haven't heard it or tested it vs our setups so we can't really comment on how it actually performs.

The point we make is that with the Monos at $15k plus the preamp at $4-7k plus two power cables and interconnects gets you a stone's throw from the T+A HV 3100 integrated which is an absolutely amazing sounding product.  

We would love to test the Stereo amp and preamp and see how it compares to our other lines and if it is really good we would most likely sign up to sell their gear.

Our past PS experience the Perfect wave dac was okay so we haven't really formed a pro vs con experience about PS.

Akaim that is not really the point sure a set of Cerwin Vegas will play loud but the size and power of that kind of speaker will give you is not the same as  the wave launch of a much physically larger speaker in a big room, the larger the room the larger the loudspeaker needs to be, hence our recommendations. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Hemlotech, we are very well qualified to talk about speakers in this price range we display Dali Epicon at $14-20k, the Legacy Focus and Aeris, the Paradigm Persona, ATC, Quad, Cabasse, Rethem, Elac,Kef Reference and Blades. 

In the past we have sold, many other brands of loudspeakers.

We talk lot about Legacy because few people have heard them, and they offer incredible value for the money. 

How many speakers that are affordable and offer all of these advantages:

1: Managable size
2: High power handling
3: High SPL
4: High efficiency 92db
5: Prodigious bass 18hz
6: Works with tubes and solid state
7: Attractive cabinetry with custom finishes.
8: Optional bass amp
9: Optional Dac/Room Correction processor/and active crossover.
10: Very clean top end and midrange with German made Heil AMT drivers
11: Very clean custom silk/graphite midrange driver
12: Big soundstage and a liquid midrange.
13: Affordable price to performance ratio: Focus Signatures $7k, larger Focus $11-13k. 

The tonal balance and deep bass and musical performance means that the speaker is very listenable and well suited to many people's tastes.

We know of only the Golden Ear Reference and the Tekton's offer some of these advantages which is one of the reasons that we love the line. 

Are they for everyone? No they are not but then again, what product is? 

Dave and Troy 
Audio Doctor NJ

Hemolech, 

Like it or not we do have a lot of actual experience in listening and setting up loudspeakers from many companies.

You learn a lot in 30 years of doIng this for a living.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Soix, you sound like just another hurt audiophile whose product missed the Absolute Sound or Stereophile’s recommended components list and is now offended.

We mentioned that the AZ products were okay, not good not bad. sure there will always be some mention on some show or in a review of how good that product is. However, the point we were making is the market speaks volumes. Your Postitive Feedback mention was old from 2012 the current price of the speakers is $25k.

What we said about the Zen products WE WERE DEALERS! So we actually have first hand knowlege of how their products sound and in all areas as well AS HOW THEY ACTUALLY COMPARE TO THE COMPETITION, the Zen’s were beaten as both a cable company and as a speaker vendor, which is WHY WE DON"T SELL THEM any more.

So Soix, you think we are bashing them because we don’t sell their products you are wrong. WHAT MAKES OUR OPINIONS VALUABLE is actual experience.

Sure you may think that never mentioning the areas where product x has issues, is classy, we don’t and if you are honest when compariing two or more products you will have an opinion, and guess what on doing a comparison you will weigh both products, in the good side and the bad side your opinion formed would be something, like I love the Mercedes x class, good fuel economy, great engine and styling, but compared to the BMW 5 series the BMW has a better engine, nearly as good styling, but has a bigger trunk and better fuel economy so even though I really like the Mercedes, I think ultimately I will go for the BMW.

Soix this is how actually people make up their minds, strengths vs weakness on all products, and the one that is selected wins the most points.

People learn about a product by comparision, and unfortunatly in this country it may be impossible to find someone who has experience with that product, and as mentioned AZ has a decent amount of dealers how many pairs of AZ speakers are actually available to listen to throughout the country?

We are willing to bet there are very few AZ speaker dealers currently displaying speakers, also how many $25k 100% made in China speakers are currently actually selling in the market?

You may ask what is the relevancy? If a product sells you may actually be able to audition it and not be flying or buying blindly, also this affects resale and your ability to ultimately move the product if you decide to.

Again answer the question if most people here had $25k to purchase a set of speakers, how many would be seeking out a set of Crecendo’s to audition, vs Wilson, Focal, Rockport, Paradigm, Martin Logan etc.

If you think that we are China bashers we are not, we had a good run with Usher loudspeakers which are also 100% made in China, the difference was that Usher makes 100% of their own parts in house and at the time whose speakers like the BE 10 were selling for a lot less then a compariable high end American made speaker. The BE 10 offered a Beryillium tweeter and Beryillium midrange driver plus an Eaton woofer in a 230lb cabinet for $14k that was for a brand new set of loudspeakers.

No Soix we are not bashing AZ, as you seem to think we are disagreeing with your recommendation, that they are a great contender.

We will say that the AZ will accomplish serveral of the requirements for a large space so sonically they would do the job and we can at least agree with you that in terms of filling up a large room they are both somewhat efficient and have good low bass capabliity however, are they worth that $25k that is the question or would possibly a pair of Legacy Focus do the job for brand new set of speakers for $11k?

Your comment on the Aeris being a contender for a shootout is valid from a price perspective but sonically, a well set up set of Focus come really close to the magic of a much more expensive set of speakers. If you heard the sound that Legacy was getting at the NY Audio show you would have though the Focus was a $25k speaker not a $11k one.

Again ask yourself the question, if you were going to purchase at full retail would that product be on your radar, if the answer is yes, then we humbly beg for your forgiveness, if the answer is no for $25k that speaker wouldn’t be on my short list than lets see who is right?

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Ebm issue with Magico I doubt they would be able to play loud enough to fill up such a big room add in 88db efficiency and the speaker is doomed to sound physically small in such a huge space.

Sure you can augment with subs but that still doesnt change the fact that the A3 is a compact small sized Magico.

Now for a more conventionally sized room you would have a contender.

Hence our recommendations Golden Ear, Tektons or Legacy, used Kef Blades are awesome if you can find em.

Our demo room is half the size 26 by 20 10 ft ceiling we can hit 105 db with a 300 watt amp with the Blades.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Igoler

An active can play loud which is a good thing. The Dynaudio loudspeakers are excellent.

You are pressurizing a very large room which requries large speakers.

Go to a concert you will see a large stack of loudspeakers as you lose 3db output for every 12 feet of distance.

In our opinion the Dynaudio is still not going to sound big enough for that space.

Innovative Audio sells Dynaudio so you should be able to demo a pair.

Gee Soix thanks for your coaching you seem out of date Absolute Sound reviewed the Zens in 2013 are they in the current recomended list now I dont think so.

Again you miss our point where is the Op going to hear a pair?

Last point if the companies cables werent competitive with Nordost or Wireworld and the AZ Addagio wasnt competive with the other speakers we sold dont you think we had valid points about the AZ line?


Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Soix why you are on to something. Actually the ATC SCM 100 would do it, however this pair is as old as the hills. 

The ATC actives play loud as hell they are used in recording studios. and the 100 sound pretty big, this pair would have 10 year old amplifers or older which are not as good as the current versions, also I think the current ATC SCM 100 ASL use an in house tweeter. 

However even considering the size of the woofer I don't think the 100's go that deep. 

Logoler should listen to the active Dynaudio's and see for himself. They are very nice loudspeakers. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Steve you miss the point, of course we are saslesman, we run an active retail shop that is not the point.

There are really two kinds of dealers, one that sticks to a particular brand year in and year out because they believe in that brand, and they may or may not be actively pursuing new and immerging brands,  and other dealers that have a staple of products that they identify with and endorse, but who are  also actively pursuing new products to be able to offer their clients, what they feel  is the best possible performance for the price.

In the last few years we added, ATC, Quad S and Z series dynamic loudspeakers, Elac, Legacy and Rethem to our longstanding brands Kef, Dali, Paradigm, and PSB.

We moved into those brands because in each of their price ranges these products were bringing some unique attributes to the table.

As per $15k being value shopping depends on your perspective, if a $15k speaker blows away a $25k one then it is a value.

The man has a huge room which requires large high output speakers.

You also miss the point that yes there are older good speakers like the Conincidents but where can the OP hear them? Many people do not like to buy and sell and pack and ship it is time consuming and not fun.

Not to mention shipping large and heavy speakers is expensive and a complete pain,  and you also forgot that sometimes older drivers are not availible  and an older speaker may be diffiult to get serviced.

Unless you are going really old most of the much less expensive speakers systems will not play loud enough to pressurize that size of room.

Like it or not the Legacy’s Focus model is one of the few under $20k sets of speakers that will do the job, same thing with Tekton and Golden Ear which is why we mentioned all of those brands and other then Tekton you may be able to demo a Legacy and Golden Ear has many dealers.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ