Soundstage depth how to improve? Shootout


Yes, soundstage depth behind the speakers, how can we improve this, and what equipment is most important for this?

Deeper speakers have more sound depth?

Toe-in speakers makes it worse?

Has tube quality something to do with it?

Cables not, that is a fact!

Combination/match preamp/amp?

Distance speakers from backwall have impact, that is also a fact!

Before I had a unison research sinfonia integrated(2×ecc82+2×ecc83 +4×6550) and the depth was much better, the depth behind the speakers was about 6 to 8 foot behind the speakers by estimate.

Now I have a Coincident statement line stage mk2(2×101D) with triode corporation trx-m300(2×310A+1×274B+1×300B’s) amps, and it is maybe half that??

The difference is almost 20k$.

Shoot me, I don’t know....

Speakers: living voice obx-rw2

Digi: bryston bda2 + bdp2

 

klappertjedundas

Showing 2 responses by sns

@klappertjedundas Are your images dimensional, in that they have proportional width and depth. If they are fully dimensional ss positioning shouldn't be much bother. Sounds to me like you're getting FLAT and FORWARD ss, that would be a bother. There was recent thread here that asked specifically about where vocals located in relation to speaker front baffle, I recall most members systems ss located just behind front baffles. This is not abnormal ss!

 

I hear two perspectives with good system setups. One is more forward ss, illusion of performers in room, second is more recessed ss, illusion of performers in studio or recording venue. You may be person who prefers second perspective. Or, your image dimensionality is lacking.

 

How did the imaging from the Unison sound comparatively to present setup did individual images have more depth. I'd find it hard to believe that push pull would have greater dimensional imaging than present setup. Your should have top flight imaging with your pre and 300b amp!

 

Have you attended to AC in your room, therefore, dedicated circuits, conditioning if needed, power cords? Bad AC greatly affects ss and imaging.

 

One can also manipulate ss with speaker positioning, further out into room would help deepen stage, more toe in could help. Room treatments, front wall behind speaker important, reflective surfaces would bring ss forward, diffusion and/or absorption would be worth playing with. I know of two treatments I can guarantee will manipulate your ss to greatest effect I've experienced, one is Synergistic HFT, the other Schumann Resonators. Put a SR on front wall, I guarantee it will suck that phantom center image rearward.

 

In the end, you may just be one of those people preferring more recessed ss, but this usually sign something about sound quality is bothersome. Forward ss can sound in your face if sound quality not exactly right. Once you get your system to sound like flesh and blood performers in room chances are you'll love being closer to performers. The fact you need them to be at distance from you is sign of something amiss. Your new amp and pre are higher resolving than prior setup, this is exposing some flaw elsewhere. Nothing wrong with your equipment here, both are top flight performers!

Your setup similar to me, I also have Coincident Statement MKII and custom build 300B monoblocks, extreme modded Klipschorn. My ss pretty much like yours, most recordings  balance of sound just behind front baffle of speaker. But this sounds extremely natural to me, plenty of image dimensionality and image layering, images just closer to me than I've heard in some systems. Klipshcorns and required placement certainly have something to do with this.

 

I also have Coincident 845, had Prima Luna Dialogue Four, have used Denafrips Hyperion, Musical Fidelity M2si with Klipschorns. Also have Merlin VSM-MM, again with extreme mods, used these with two different 845 SET. Also Joule Electra LA100MkIII, Schitt Saga+ pres, and finally dac direct with number of dacs. In all cases my ss has been centered just behind front baffles of both speakers. This would suggest my room and room treatments dictating ss to large effect vs. equipment.

 

With Merlins I could manipulate ss depth to larger extent, I used room treatments, toe in, speaker placement. Ultimately, I prefer more forward, ss,  I've had previous systems where ss more recessed, just didn't have the immediacy and extension into room I prefer. I've even gone to using various room treatments with intent to extend ss into room, I go for sound immersion.

 

SS placement doesn't matter that much to me as long as I have image dimensionality, images are what supplies the depth. I prefer the performers closer to me.

 

It also may be true DHT and SET  have inherently more forward SS, I've heard this mentioned by others. Certainly part of what I hear as immediacy in these tubes.