Results depend on the CD transport and the cables used. Chromecast Audio will sound better if you insert a reclocker inline with the DAC.
Absolutely. MP3 or ALAC streamed files will always lose a little depth and width over the .wav file (CD quality), but if you minimize the jitter from the Chromecast, the streamed files may be even better than the CD transport. If you use a Synchro-Mesh to reclock with one of my excellent BNC-BNC cables, it will probably beat the transport. I stream occasionally using Amazon Prime music and it sounds wonderful. Not as good as my Ethernet renderer, but really nice. I don't use any transport by itself because the jitter is too high. I only use my Oppo for movies now and reclock it with an iFi SPDIF iPurifier, which reduces jitter for Dolby Digital tracks. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I connect Chromecast to the Gumby with an optical cable.
i am using a coax to connect CD transport to Gumby.
What can I do to improve the streaming quality.
How do I minimize the jitter from the Chromecast?
I don’t know what a reclocker is or how it connects.
This is simple. The Synchro-Mesh reclocker connects in-line with the digital coax cable. Cable in and cable out, so you need a second cable. All coax cables should be 1.25-1.5m in length, not shorter. You can connect your sources to the Synchro-Mesh input using Toslink or coax and the output to your DAC using either Toslink or coax. You can actually connect two sources, both the CD Transport and the Chromecast to the input of the Synchro-Mesh and switch between them, one Toslink and one coax. They can both have lower jitter going to your DAC. The Synchro-Mesh in addition to lowering jitter also provides galvanic isolation, so the ground of the sources are not connected to the DAC. This eliminates ground-loops and the noise that these produce. The Synchro-Mesh also upsamples the data from 16/44.1kHz to 24/96kHz, which is beneficial because your DAC will select a better sounding digital filter that has minimal artifacts in the audio range. The risk of trying this is low because the SM and BNC cables have 30-day money-back guarantee, less shipping. BTW, I highly recommend this Toslink cable: https://btpa.com/TOSLINK-XXX.html Steve N. Empirical Audio |
IMO, trying to get your chromecast audio/toslink up to a high standard for streaming is like putting lipstick on a pig. I agree, however a Sychro-Mesh reclocker will make practically any digital S/PDIF source into world-class, and probably for less money than other methods. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
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After investigating, I can see that Ethernet/Roon may well be the wave of the near future for audiophiles.
It isn't for me. I compared Roon to DLNA/UPnP on the same hardware platform and DLNA sounded better. It was the Roon software compared to Linn Kinsky/Minimserver. This is why I don't offer a Roon-Ready product. I offer a better sounding DLNA product. When they can make a better sounding playback software, I will consider Roon. You can still stream pretty much anything using DLNA.
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You just need a better reclocker. You get what you pay for. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I'll put my reclocker up against anything on the market, transports, servers, renderers. Nothing delivers lower jitter, NOTHING. If you send my your device you believe to have lower jitter, I will be happy to measure it on my measurement system and publish the results. Steve N . Empirical Audio |
Using a DAC to measure jitter using J-test is insufficient and the wrong way to characterize digital sources. It's okay for characterizing the jitter added by a DAC, but not for digital sources. Digital sources are accurately characterized only by DIRECT measurement, not with a AP system. It must include both the period distribution and the spectrum plots.
Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Technology and improvements in materials, that's how we got here. The average person is getting a better experience and the Audiophile can get a better than live performance experience now. A far cry from your Pioneer receiver days. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
The better than -275dBFS is a direct measurement.
Wrong, It's not.
Steve N. |
I’d genuinely like to know why. ASR measured the jitter reduction inherent with his AP by doing a J-test with a Toslink loop, then measured the Toslink output of the CCA (using the same cable I would assume), so if the jitter reduction was any worse, it would should up, and the differences were near non-existent. Very well. The bandwidth of the AP system measuring jitter is not high enough to capture the jitter completely. You need at least 5GHz bandwidth to get real-time direct jitter. Even higher would be better. This is exactly like trying to measure a fast 10MHz digital signal with a 100MHz B/W scope. You will miss everything going on in the waveform. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
The problem is your digital equipment. Makes all the difference. What software are you using for FLAC playback? Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I have listened to components that measure well on the J-test and I can still hear the jitter. When I drive these with lower jitter sources, they sound better. This is why I don't take much stock in the J-test. The correlation to audibility is not there. There needs to be much better tests, and direct jitter measurement for sources. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
There was an article in Sound On Sound about 10 years ago on jitter and how it was not really a problem for good modern dacs and like I said this was 10 years ago. The article did say if you are chaining multiple dacs then you would want an external clock but how many do that in a home situation.
And your point is? There are a lot of BS articles out there from people that don't know Shiit from Shinola. I don't take stock in sources with no credibility. I know what I measure and I know what I hear. My customers agree with what I hear. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Remember you are listening to compress audio with streaming. Wont sound better than CD.
I only play flac from a usb stick on my system. It sounds better than streaming.
Finally, something true, although FLAC from Tidal is not compressed on playback, so it could possibly match CD playback given the right playback equipment. I can play MP3 from Amazon Prime music with my newest XMOS USB converter, Wireworld Platinum USB cable and one of these: https://sotm-usa.com/collections/sotm-ultra/products/copy-of-tx-usbultra-regenerator-1 The SQ from this beats the CD digital output from my Oppo by a country mile, even though it's compressed. This is because reducing jitter is more important than MP3 compression. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Listen through OPPO 105D
DAC and other high-quality devices
All from HHD Hard disk
The files were transferred to the DAC via a 105D stream
This was a mess of unintelligible stuff, but I can see that you don't have the equipment that is up to the task, just as I suspected. If you are using USB and many different software playback apps, the results will be poor. The devil is in the details. This is a system and every part of the system must be optimized to get stellar results, including the playback app, the interfaces, the computer, the cables, the ripping, and the DAC. Steve N. Empirical Audio
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audioengrI enjoy reading your posts for the most part. I do not see your gear listed nor pics in Virtual Systems? Happy Listening!
Done, Steve N. |
Well, after obtaining a streamer (Arcam,) and dumping Chromecast Audio, I still find CDs superior sonically to streaming when comparing identical tracks.
The streamer is close though.
With this equipment, it's not surprising. Too much jitter. Are you streaming Tidal? Steve N. Empirical Audio
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My streamed movies from VUDU are identical to the same played from a Blu-Ray disk. VUDU is better. Steve N. |
I agree that practically every device on the market can benefit from mods. Empirical Audio modded 40 different components for about 10 years. Very lucrative business and lots of happy customers. However, I got to the point that I could not get the ultimate performance from other companies products with mods in them. I had to design my own components. My customers begged me to do this. I still mod components, but only my own. Every component I make has gone through at least 3 improvements, most of them inexpensive upgrades. It's a vestige from many years at Intel, where continuous improvement is part of the culture. I also agree that 2- dimensional sound is pervasive, and even sound that resides only between the speakers. It requires some expenditure to achieve wide and deep soundstage and 3-dimensionality. It also requires every single thing in the system to be optimized. Even one poor cable can screw the pooch. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
An excellent selling point for headphones. I would listen to headphones more, but they just don't deliver on the imaging and 3-D space of real audio. Having the performer in your head instead of in front of you is just not natural and most cross-field software doesn't cut it. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I am not a fan of software solutions for room correction other than maybe minimizing unwanted bass resonances. There is no substitute for good speaker selection based on polar response and then optimized placement of those speakers in the room, as well as the right room treatments in the right locations. The speakers must integrate acoustically and efficiently with the room. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
You can stream them from the site and then purchase in most forms, CD, SACD, DSD and downloads from Bluecoastrecords.com From HDTracks, it depends on the artist. All downloads and some 24/96, others 24/192 and you can select .wav or FLAC or DSD and other formats. Steve N. |
Just to get back to the original post of this thread for a moment.
Does anyone know what source is being used for streaming tracks?
Do record companies allow their master tapes to be used? The source used depends on the streaming service. Amazon Prime Music uses 256k MP3. Apple iTunes uses ALAC at 44.1. Tidal uses FLAC at 44.1. I believe they are all commercially available tracks, not studio masters. There may be some hi-res master tracks at 24/96, 24/176.4 or 24/192 available at HDTracks.com for download, depending on the artist. There are master tracks available for download from Bluecoastrecords.com. These are very well recorded with minimal EQ and no compression. If you have a good system, they sound live. Keith Greeninger, Alex DeGrassi and Jane Selkye are some of my favorites. I would start with Bluecoast collection 2. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
My question is do the streaming companies buy the tracks from the record companies directly, and if they do is it via hard drive transfer or software?
Or is there a distributor (middle man?) It probably depends on the company, but I would bet that 99% of them just get the same tracks that we can buy by downloading them. These are generally not masters because masters are 24/96 or 24/192, almost never 44.1. These are down-sampled for the streaming track. This is why I almost never stream. I have my library of tracks on a RAID 1 and these are specifically selected for good SQ and tracks that I like. All are .wav files, uncompressed. This delivers the best SQ. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I agree. I only use streaming for parties etc. Most of my listening is using Ethernet renderer with tracks spooled from locally stored .wav files. Beats any CD or SACD player. Much lower jitter possible.
Steve N
Empirical Audio
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I have been demonstrating the difference in formats at trade shows for years. My equipment has always been resolving enough to easily hear the differences, even USB. I even hear a difference in AIFF and uncompressed FLAC compared to .wav.
If you are using UPnP, then you should try Linn Kinsky and Minimserver with BubbleUPnP as proxy server, if you are not already using these.
Also, here are some killer tweaks to make Ethernet sound stellar:
1) AQVOX switch
2) 0.5m Wireworld Platinum Etherenet cable
3) EMO EN-70e isolator
4) 1.5-2.0m Wireworld Platinum Ethernet cable
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
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Invest in a good streaming device / DAC, subscribe to Tidal and ensure following steps,
- Never use WIFI for streaming music content to your network player,
- Limit network traffic when playing an online stream,
- Use software optimized for sound quality,
- Use high-end network adapter & switch,
- Upgrade your router,
- Replace generic ethernet patch cords with audio grade LAN cables.
I agree with all, except for the WIFI. My WIFI adapter sounds identical to wired. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
question is why when your dac really should be taking care of the jitter (benchmark dac1)? Do you really need to add a reclocker? Simply because they don’t do a good job of reclocking and the PLL in the typical reclocker still benefits from a low-jitter input. You are much better off with a DAC that does not have a reclocker on the input. I can make this sound amazing. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
