So What Is Real?


There is a newsletter I subscribe to because the guy seems to talk about reality and not what some sales dude wants to sell you. [email protected]   Now the funny thing to me is that all these cable specialists of high dollar remedies for flawed playback are somehow going to magically change what you hear and will then rise above the abilities of the music file limitations and recording engineers. A dumb wire that is used to create the hi-res recordings so sought after is not somehow suitable for the playback of the same. The following is from Waldreps newsletter and I fully agree. I love this guy and he is a light shining through all the smoke and mirror BS of high end audio. I confess I too am a cable denier and incapable of hearing " further uptick in micro-dynamic jump " but love the delicious word salad these guys create to try to describe something that is not there. I can see the cable guy sitting there with his buddy. Wow did you hear that uptick in micro-dynamics!!  You just know that's how he would talk, right?
  As an aside here how does one become a professional listener? What is the criteria for attaining this lofty goal? How do you know when you have arrived and what governing authority sets down the requirements for such a thing so you know  you are not deceiving yourself and others? Is it a nebulous category that is assigned to you when you spend a certain level of money or do you have verifiable and provable abilities above the norm as recognized by a large group of people including recording industry engineers, professional sound installers and high end audio system owners? In other words anyone but cable sellers?

  The following is from "Dr. AIX Post for January 25, 2020"

 " Cable Nonsense

What is it that Art Linkletter used to say? Kids say the darndest things. Well, it seems some FB audio group administrators, audiophiles, high-end audio salespersons, audiophile society officials, and manufacturers also say things that make little or no sense when talking or posting about cables.

I usually steer clear of FB posts or online magazines that promote high-end audio cables. It's just never safe to present with science, established electrical engineering theory and practice, or objectiveness when cables are concerned. A recent exchange on a familiar FB audio group page resulted in a member calling me a "cable denier" because I advocated for science and physics in evaluating power cords.

The thread basically dismissed my comments because I'm a member of the professional audio engineering community. Audio equipment salespeople, FB administrators, high-end audio marketing managers, and the general audio buying public are claimed to be better and more reliable sources of information when it comes to recommending expensive accessories and cables. According to the gentleman below, they are capable of listening in ways that audio professionals can not.

One commenter wrote:

"Mark is a pro and speaks just like one, but he is not a professional LISTENER, like you (Writer's NOTE: the guy offering the ultra expensive power cords), I and so many others in the high-end industry. Interesting is that most so-called experts are also naysayers who work in the recording industry, not in the high-end industry."

What does this statement actually claim? That professional audio engineers and producers do not know how to listen? That spending one's professional life in front of speakers in a control room doesn't require listening?Maybe...just maybe...the engineers responsible for producing the recordings that are played back in these guys high-end systems are correct in their assessment of power cords and expensive USB/Ethernet cables. Image that!

Can you really trust a gentlemen that just launched a new cable company that offers a 6-foot power cord for $3150? Oh and this person also believes that cables are directional! BTW They are not.

Here's a couple of additional comments...

"Cables can make a difference. I’m glad I can hear those differences it truly enhances the experience. I have been a dedicated audiophile and in the industry for over 45 years and have been able to identify those differences since my first experience with Smog Lifters in the 70’s. I search for and usually discover great products that deserve special attention by people looking for the last bit of resolution and coherency. I’m truly sorry for those that wouldn’t hear the difference."

Here's a comment from an individual that swapped a normal Ethernet cable for an expensive one.

"...the Vodka seemed to remove a layer of film for superior textural reveal. There was also a shade more tonal depth and recording space ‘air’. Most noticeable of all was a further uptick in micro-dynamic jump."

I don't know about you but I cringe when I hear people talk about audio in such terms. And this after listening to a commercial album and then stopping, swapping the cable and relistening. It's unbelievable.

I could pull quotes from cable reviews all afternoon but I think you get the point. When anyone starts spewing nonsense about power cords, digital interconnects, or network cables, run away. Keep your wallet in your pocket and unsubscribe from that group or online magazine. Their motivations are suspect. They either want to sell you something (usually at very high cost) or are dependent on advertising dollars from the companies they write about or the individuals they interview.

"
mahlman

Showing 9 responses by mahlman

" If you are going to use overreaching exclamatory words like "greatly," why not just use my favorite that I see on this forum: "Jaw-dropping!" "
  Yes and show us the curves you measured the jaw dropping  new results with. You can't measure it and show a difference before and after it becomes just another urban golden ear legend. Self validation with no evidence to support anything other than you said so. I think I might start a cable company. If you don't agree with my prices and aspersions to audio improvement you are, sadly, just lacking in discernment and ability to critically analyze the results I am telling you are there with no proof to support my premise.
" Welcome to my world, grasshopper. By the way, I urge you to consider adding a new embedding: you can call it information fields, mind-matter interaction or extra-sensory perception, as I use those terms interchangeably for the purposes of the discussion of sound and it’s perception. I am channeling Peter Belt as we speak and to a lesser extent Good old Rupert Sheldrake, who never really got on board the whole audiophile train 🚂 He was more interested in how dogs sense when their owners are returning home. Also, I’m not sure which embedding the CD fluttering belongs in, maybe that’s a new embedding. And the scattered CD laser LIGHT could be a new embedding too. Magnetic fields might be a new one too. Finally, save an embedding for good old Quantum Mechanics. This should be a separate embedding, more things are wrought by Quantum Mechanics than this world dreams of. 🤗 And wire directionality 🔛 should have its own place in the scheme of things. "

   Tip of the hat to you Geoffkait. I think you have been very clever with your analysis and subsequent marketing. If you were any where near by I would like to stop in and meet you one day.
" Reality is for people who can’t handle drugs. "True that and it is nice to know where you are and where you were yesterday so a drug free life IS better. Reality is even a cure for wireomaniacs out there and is drug free.
" Cable may be THE most contentious forum subject."
It is absolutely insane the nonsense that surrounds them. I went to the Klipsch sound lab in Hope, Arkansas last October and got to see the anechoic chamber and the test lab and from one side to the other not one of these dumb mega buck cables. As in the building where all klipsch speakers are designed and tested. Where the rubber hits the road and results count and not fictional bragging rights they use simple two conductor wires.
" Not sure what that long and rambling rant was supposed to be about. The even more tedious rambling nonsense that followed is the usually predicable boring banter. Which is amazing, since if there's one thing banters supposed to not be its boring. But there you go.

The OP entire approach is mistaken. It is not a case of good wire or whatever that will "rise above the abilities of the music file limitations and recording engineers." That would indeed be impossible. But that's not it at all.

What it is instead, every single tiny little bit of component between you and the performance either adds to or detracts from the original sound. The best you can do, the very best possible, is nothing gets added, and nothing gets detracted either.

So now, if you can't hear any difference, great. Good for you. Lot cheaper that way. Congratulations. I should be so lucky. "
   I get a big kick out of people who want life like realism and then proceed to use things the people who played the music or recorded the music don't use to pretend they have achieved accurate playback.
I stand corrected. I held an audio cable up today and everything ran out the end onto the floor. I had no idea it was turned the wrong way.

" Superior reproduction equipment allows one to better hear what is on the recording. It all starts with the recording, hardly a moot point. The capabilities of High End gear to reproduce music is in general far superior to the sound quality contained in the vast majority of recordings. "

I  agree 100% with that.

" "How does one become a professional listener?"

Give yourself a mental enema. I am not sure you are capable
of this... "
Sure a great reply that does not answer the question I was asking in all seriousness. I want to know, if being a professional listener is the only way to accurately judge cables how do you do this? I want to know there is more than look at how much I have spent garbage behind that comment from someone who want to sell 3500 cables.
" An updated passive network features premium grade AudioQuest® internal wiring. "
  Years ago when marketing was trying to come up with something to justify price increases they used Monster Cable. Didn't last long though. The big deal with the CW 4's are the new mid range horn and crossovers and front to back cabinet bracing. They are now remarkable speakers and the guy that designed them used zip cord for cables from his QSC Theater amp when we heard them in the Klipsch sound lab. That fancy wire inside is meant to appeal to certain individuals that think it means something. Fortunately the real improvements are quite significant and this is a fine speaker. When you jump the price up as much as this latest CW has done you need to add fluff where ever you can.
" Frankly, you are in no position to speak for Klipsch. Your representations about Klipsch intentions or motivations are not verifiable.  
"
  Lets look at things logically as I am sure that would appeal to you. Monster cables were high end back then but did not stay with Klipsch long. Would you care to say why?
  The guy that designed the speakers did not use this fru fru stuff on playback in his sound lab. Would you care to say why?
  True I am not a Klipsch spokesman but I know what I have seen with my own eyes and if fancy wiring was successful in Klipsch eyes would they have ever stopped it?
  You all are getting pissy because a sacred idol is being impugned and can't come up with one bit of actual scientific evidence to bolster all the grandiose assertions made.

 Cable cookers, directional wiring, $60,000 for 9' of wire per channel + the secret box with knobs on it and you all go for this stuff. I think I am out of here and let the strange huddle together in defense of each other.   
It is a direct refutation of the insanity that $$$$$$$ can overwhelm the rigors of science and provide golden ears with heretofore unknown levels of audio nirvana. The absurdity of it all never seems to go away so in that regard you are 100% right. Do try to keep up with the OP's intent..