Say it aint so--- Teres quality question


As a preface-- I have been a lurker here at Audiogon for a number of years, but have never posted.

Yesterday a review of the Teres 200 series table was posted at Audioasylum. I am extremely concerned about what was stated.

I have always read fantastic things about the Teres, but this reviewer seemed to consider some issues with regard to quality-- ie:

"Some minor issues...the wood platter is not 100% true on the horizontal surfaces...a very slight rise...I suspect this is the nature of machining wood?" as well as "Product Weakness: Platter slightly off true"

I plan on joining the Teres family -- but have developed some reluctance after reading this.

Perhaps some of the members here with first hand experience will be able to put my concern at ease with regard to the reviewers statement.

Here is a reference to the post:

Review by Angus Black III on January 06, 2004 at 10:35:32

Thank you, and a special thanks to TWL for the always informative reading.

Focusedfx

focusedfx
Truly an educational thread. Thanks, all!

Conclusion: Teres is not perfect. Maybe going forward, Chris will now measure and make sure his tables are more uniformly made.

Best,
George
Enjoying my lurk immensely. If it's any consolation, Psychic and I are getting info from someone in a position to know that the platters of our beloved SL1200's (of which the platter is my least-beloved part, for its resonance) have lately begun arriving in a 'non-flat' condition (yeah, they don't cost what audiophile TT's do, and also use a compliant damping mat, but our sort always likes to brag on the 70's-era Nipponese mass-market quality angle :-) Well, I got inspired by Patrick and went down and took a 7" aluminum architectural scale to mine ('83 vintage), and you know what? Approx. 1/64" uniform deviation. I think it's dished, and I think they knew what they were doing.

Jphii: I've got all kinds of radical ideas for a TT design - just don't know how to implement any of them or how well they'd work. Send me a million bucks and I'll be happy to share. ;^)

FWIW: Personally, I don't really see *slight* deviations from perfect platter flatness as ever presenting an audible problem, and if a wood platter sounded best, I wouldn't be scared to get it. IMO though, if one isn't clamping and using a mat anyway, the deviations inherent in the record will make this whole question nothing more than an academic point of aesthetics. (Sorry Focusedfx, but that's based on absolutely no personal Teres experience whatsoever, which will be my reason for making like Tom and receding back into the 'woodwork' now...)
if you don't mind voids under the vinyl and the echo from the stylus etch coming back into the playback i guess a non uniform platter or making the vinyl conform to the platter is OK!

think about it, for a moment, you are trying to isolate and subtract not add. same reason you get a higher tolerance (quiet) spindle bearing or higher tolerance (quiet) motor or higher tolerance (quiet) arm bearing... i could go on but i think everyone gets the drift here

bottom line engineering out the imperfections in the tt components makes a better performing system. so by noise elimination in the tt, just as we prefer lp's with no ticks and pops, is the best chance to deliver the finest musical performances.

don't argue this point just consider the the compromises you accept to have a wooden system
I just got back from CES and this is my first opportunity to respond to this thread.

First I should address the original question of the platter not being 100% true.. a very slight rise. I saw that comment
on audioasylum and plan to contact the poster about it. If it is a problem all depends on what he means by "very slight rise". If he is talking about a few thousandths then it is not a concern. If the deviation is much larger than that then there could be a problem with either the platter or how the platter is seated on the bearing, the latter being more likely.

Lugnut posted a number of concerns about the 265 that he has been setting up for a friend. There are a number of issues that perhaps I should address separately.

1) Armboard height - The delivered armboard is the correct height (1.6", 42mm) and was drilled correctly. I verified all of the pertinent dimensions with Mark Baker of Origin Live at CES. However, the arm (OL Illustrious) evidently does not fit. I will suggest the the buyer send the arm and armboard to me to sort out the problem.

2) The armboard bolt was too short - Lugnut is right about this one. We increased the height of the base and I mistakenly shipped a few tables with the wrong bolt. Yup, a QC problem but easily corrected.

3) The armboard and base surfaces are not completely flat -
Yes, Lugnut is correct. The wood surfaces on the base and armboard are not perfectly flat. There are a couple of reasons for this as some other posters have noted. These pieces are hand made with wood working equipment. They are
quite flat and true but do not have the degree of precision that you would get from a machine shop. We could machine these parts on CNC machines at considerably greater cost but because thy are constructed from wood they would
develop the minor irregularities that Lugnut noted. I have the utmost confidence that the current techniques we are using result in more than adequate precision to provide both proper alignment and good sound. If you want a table with perfectly flat surfaces then one constructed from aluminum or acrylic is the way to go. If one the other hand you are interested in good sound wood is a real winner. Contrary to what is being implied, I do not believe that this is a QC problem. However, I intend to take the information and look ways to make improvements. But don't look for us adding significant cost to Teres turntables in the quest for precision that does not yield a sonic benefit.

4) The platter surface is cupped 1/8" - Sorry but this is simply not true. Whatever degree of imprecision that may exist in that platter it would be impossible to have that much error without major cracks and splitting. While high precision is not justified for the base and armboard that is not the case for the platter. We go to great lengths to stabilize the wood in the platter and they are machined on CNC machines to close tolerances. I have one of the oldest wood platters in existence and it remains very flat and true. It is true that even with the best efforts wood will not be perfectly stable. It is inevitable the there will be very small deviations. However, this once again needs to be kept in proper perspective. Minor deviations are only important if they have an audible impact. The prototype wood platter that we threw together with no stabilization effort after a time became grossly out of round (about 3/32" radially). However, even in it's flawed state it still sounded dramaticly better than very precise acrylic.

Chris
Update. I received an email from Chris and will be boxing the arm up to send to him. Hopefully the culprit item will be identified and replaced. I did post a clarification about the 1/8" (wrong) platter deviation as soon as I caught it. I apologize for the error but it was an honest one, caught by me and corrected in this thread in just a few minutes after the original post. Whenever this project is wrapped up I will post to this thread the details of the process and more importantly my overall impressions of the performance of all the components that are being used as they work together.

I communicated directly with OL and the retailer of the arm and the cartridge being used a couple of months ago after sending detailed photos. Early on I had recommended that the arm and the armboard be sent to Chris for his evaluation. I'm relieved we are at this point. As painful as this process was (posting to this thread) for everyone, I believe it will be beneficial to all in the long run.