I am also very curious. On CD the Reimyo is much better than the EMM. This is not in a head to head but the Reimyo sounded phenomenal on CD when I heard it briefly. Every time I hear the EMM on CD & in my system there is a lack of musicality & palpability compared to my Audio Aero. The Reimyo had the palpability & detail that is missing in my system.
Since I listened to the Reimyo briefly take what I say w. a grain of salt.
I would love to see where this thread goes.
I was at a agon member's house tuesday listening to tunes. He said that meitner was about to get kicked off
the 'product of the moment' chart by reimyo. No reflection on the sound of either product. That is just the way it goes.
I have listened to the EMM in numerous systems including one session for several hours. I own the Reimyo and was really pleased to come home and play it after the several hours spent with the EMM. I haven't compared them back to back but my feeling is the Reimyo is much more musical and natural sounding without sacrificing any detail. It all comes down to taste so understand that this is what I hear and want in my system. At the time I bought the Reimyo, I considered both and have absolutely no regrets in choosing the Reimyo. It is an amazing player.
I also had the Meitner and sold it to get the Reimyo. I prefer the Reimyo, but to me the biggest difference was in build quality. The Reimyo, besides being a one box solution, has absolute incredible build quality.
Some say its the best in the world. But what puzzles me is that the some who have reviewed it says it sounds harsh on cds that aren't audiophile quality. I say what's the point because 300 of my cds are not from audiophile labels. For example, Billy Joel, U2, Elton John, Sting, Pink Floyd etc.
But I won't pass final judgement until I have one in my system.
OT: Where'd Reimyo "come from"? I have never heard of them.
One thing I noticed is that the Reimyo did soudn just OK w a hybrid SACD I used. It sounded slightly lost. I can't say more as I needed more time. The designer was in the room. He commented it was a poor recording & put on an XRCD which sounded significantly better.
The SACD I listened (Jim Hall Concierto Mobile Fidelity Label) to did sound very good as SACD on the EMM gear. In fact better than on the Reimyo. I do think even SACD & CD players have "biases" in sound. Similar to gold coiled vs copper coiled phono cartridges. It would be great to have the funds for 2 tonearms, sorry I mean 2 digital front ends.
I have heard both head to head (however, we are talking dac 6 / philips transport vs Reiymo). In most ways, I found them to be equals...detail, resolution, soundstage, etc. However, I would agree that the reiymo sounds sexier, more musical if you will. The Reiymo reminds of the best qualities of the meitner + the best qualities of the audio areo. If I had to choose, my hat tips to the Reiymo (and I own the DCC2/philips). The meitner transport / DCC2 combo may change the results..who knows. I choose to stick with my meitner rig for two reasons. 1. I am overly pleased with it and have no complaints. It is everything I need. 2. I hate trying to match digital players with pre-amps. It is my audio pet peave. I never seem to nail it. I love the dcc2's built in pre-amp and thus It is not going anywhere. Meitner did the system matching for me (I have been through a number of pre-amps)...and irrespect of whether the dcc2's pre-amp is world class or not....I love it!
I just wanted to make sure that you realize the Reimyo isn't a SACD player, it's just a redbook cd player.
Brianmgrarcom: Reimyo is a line of Japanese electronics made be the people who do the Harmonix cables and anti-resonance products. It's gotten a few rave reveiws in the press.
Jond, I appreciate you addressing my question. I am surprised I have not heard of it before.
I am mentioning the Reimyo in comparison to the EMM each in their own strengths. The EMM is fabulous on SACD. I find it OK on CD. The Reimyo is fabulous on CD & of course can only play a hybrid SACD (CD layer). But comparing the Reimyo on the CD layer to the Meitner on SACD layer is what I am curious about. Which one brings you closest to the source. It is a tough. I find the EMM on SACD to be incredible. The Reimyo on XRCDs sounded incredible. I haven't listened to XRCD on the EMM. The Reimyo on the CD layer of my hybrid SACD sounded good but not great. The EMM on the CD layer also sounded good not great. But on the SACD layer it did sound great. I know it sounds confusing but I am approaching both units from thier strengths. The one major limitation is software availability on SACD vs CD. But if the Reimyo is "fussy" about software then things become different. Of that I am not sure but would love to hear what people say. For me what is important is both the units performing under their best circumstances and how they perform on "regular" music we listen to all the time. I would love to hear from someone who did a head to head comparison.
Dgad, if you dont mind me asking, you stated that the two players sounded good but not great on the CD layer but the EMM sounded great on SACD; was this consistent on many CD's or are you talking of one particular CD? Obviously each layer is mastered independently, so the CD layer on a hybrid could be not so great and the SACD layer great with the mastering having as much to do with it than anything.
Paraphrasing Dgad's experience(and that of others), the Reimyo CDP-777 is superior with respect to redbook presentation in any apples to apples face-off between the two playback systems.
I recently spoke to someone that is running the Emm
setup into a tubed pre amp and loves the standard cd
performance. That said, I wish there was a Reimyo in
the Midwest to audition.
I've bought numerous hybrid SACD's to use on my Reimyo. To me it's all about the quality of the recording because some SACD's sound absoluting amazing (Matt Haimovitz:Please Welcome.../Jeremy Monteiro Trio:A Song For You Karen/ Colin Linden:Big Mouth) while others are very mediocre at best. I find redbook to be the same: some good, some okay and some bad. For me, the majority (by far) of my software is redbook. Buying a player for superior SACD and redbook that is "okay" (at that price point) did not make sense for me and I love my preamp so no need for that extra. I opted for a redbook player that I felt was superior on redbook and in build quality. Again, personal needs and taste reign and are unique to each of us.
I am reposting part of my response for you, "The EMM is fabulous on SACD. I find it OK on CD. The Reimyo is fabulous on CD". That is how I find each within their own strengths. I only listened briefly so I never was able to really go into full detail. I own the EMM so I know it very well. I think the mastering arguement or comment might be true but it might be more than that as well.
I agree with you but boy do I love the EMM on SACD.
VTL 7.5 preamp coming into my system within a month as many people have said the same in another thread.
I am experimenting a lot this year. Luckily getting great prices on everything. What I did learn is that CD players have flavors. I am at the point of diminishing returns & software is more important than equipment.
I still want to hear if anyone compared the EMM on SACD to the Reimyo on CD.
I follow you now Dgad. My question arose from this statement, "The Reimyo on the CD layer of my hybrid SACD sounded good but not great. The EMM on the CD layer also sounded good not great. But on the SACD layer it did sound great."
fascinating thread, though the comparison between SACD on the EMM to redbook on the Reimyo is not valid.
If SACD is super important to you, then EMM or DCS separates would be the way to go. If you dont need/want SACD, then the Reimyo, DCS separates, the top Linn, and some would add the Audio Aero Capitole MK II SE (which i own) in the top group of players. Obviously a perfect world would have a single system capable of excelling in both. There are many 'fine sounding' SACD playback systems that suck at redbook. I think everyone would agree that DCS or EMM separates are fabulous redbook players, so as usual, it boils down not to 'better/best' but system and ear-dependent personal preference.
Aside from the extrodinary cost of the dcs and emm separates, I chose my AA player because for me, SACD is just not important enough. I wish i could have acquired the Reimyo for the same price - just not possible, so i went with the AA, and have not regretted it (much better than my Levinson 390S, even though it does not do HDCD)
i have not heard the Reimyo.....but have no doubt it is excellent from all i have heard. as an emmlabs (DAC6/CDSD) owner i can say i have not heard better redbook than thru my emmlabs; particularly with the CDSD......which to my ears, was a huge performance step over the modified Philips SACD 1000 transport.
has anyone actually had the Reimyo and an emmlabs combo with using the CDSD transport in the same system (at the same time) for direct comparison? i have read these various threads but have yet to see this comparison.
perceptions based on hearing them in separate systems is valid but falls short of what i would like to hear about.
i hope the Reimyo is better......i'm all for the SOTA to be advanced.
I have an Accuphase DP-75v which I like very much. I am considering the Reimyo, and the EMM. Has anyone had the opportunity to have the Reimyo and the Accuphase in their system? I am curious what the differences are between them.
I have both the DP75V & the EMM DCC2/CDSD. I listen primarily to redbook. Especially with revealing speakers, the EMM is far better than the Accuphase (which is still very respectable & listenable & smooth). The EMMs have a beautiful saturation of each musical component (vocals & instruments, particularly woodwinds, strings & piano) that is a real joy. Each instrument is in its own space & has its own definite character. The real fun is every recording shows its own individuality, so listening is an adventure. The EMMs do all this while removing edginess & grain (it's magic to my ears). The few SACDs I have are not much better than the redbooks, & I feel like my whole collection has been upgraded to SACD. I formerly had the Phillips & the CDSD is far better in the ways I described above. The Accuphase is very harmonious with a golden glow & good percussion, but does not have the definition of the EMMs.
One clear advantage of the EMM Labs/Meitner over the Reimyo is the preamp built into the DAC. You can spare interconnects and reduce further any coloration of the sound. Also there is some savings on the preamp but again the EMM Labs/Meitner is much more expensive that the Reimyo but then again you get the SACD as well. It's a tough call and I am sure in the best systems they are both great.
Rich, I owned the Accuphase DP-75V before I bought my EMM CDSD/DCC2 combo. The Meitner is in another league altogether. While the Accuphase CDP does a lot of things well, I found it to be significantly lacking in treble extension. The Meitner gear will give you better frequency extension, better dynamics and better imaging and soundstaging. In addition, you would be getting what is possibly the best SACD playback system currently available. I have not yet heard the Reimyo, so I can't offer any insight on that front.
Mike, How would you say the EMM betters the Lin CD12 you once owned?
Jason; i got one of the first DAC6/modified Philips and prior to breakin slightly preferred the CD-12 (the CD-12 had a slightly lower noise floor, greater detail and more snap and micro-dynamics.....the emmlabs was more dynamic and had a larger soundstage).
after breakin i would call them a draw.....the emmlabs had come very close to the CD-12 on it's strengths but the emmlabs still had an advantage in dynamics and soundstage.
then i sent the modified Philips in for a change in chips (the original chip in the Philips would only recognize 15 of the 16 bits of redbook). now the emmlabs pulled clearly ahead of the CD-12 as the additional bit lowered the noise floor, improved detail and snap......there was not a huge difference but i clearly preferred the emmlabs on redbook and there was no performance area where the CD-12 was better.
then 18 months later i got the new CDSD transport.....now the performance had improved by a huge factor and now the CD-12 is definitely at a lower level of redbook performance. the emmlabs has much greater presence, lower noise-floor, greater dynamic micro and macro-dynamics and a more weighty and fleshed out soundstage.
the CD-12 remains in the ballpark of any other redbook player i have heard (i haven't heard everything).
the sacd performance of the emmlabs has always been considerably better than the redbook performance.
Thanks much, Mike! I was always wondering about that. Your description leaves me no questions.
I live in Tokyo so I know well all the aforementioned players and some of their dealers. Since the EMM gear started selling in Japan this year, people are returning their Reimyos, Esoterics etc. They are listening to the new CDSD player, not the Philips 1000. I run the EMM gear with all tubes. In my listening tests, the EMM SACD ON GOOD RECORDINGS is way better than the Remiyo. On CD, it is a toss. The good news is that both players are truly hi end equipment.
Another more subjective test is the annual expos here in Tokyo (much better than NY's poor ones.) EMM consistently is used and the sound produced is always notable. I never heard the Accuphase and got impressed, even their best models and even with the extremely advanced equalizers. I therefore agree with the comments of others earlier.
I have posted info on some of the comparisons I did at a dealer with the top end equipment from Esoteric, EMM and Sony.