An update:
I ended up buying the CDSD to go with my DCC2. I should get it in a few weeeks.
I ended up buying the CDSD to go with my DCC2. I should get it in a few weeeks.
Reference DACS: An overall perspective
There has been many threads the last few months regarding the sonic signature of some of the highest regarded reference DACS (Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) here on the GON. I have been very fortunate to audtion many of these wonderful pieces in my home or friend's systems. I wanted to share, in a systematic way, my impressions/opinions with you GON members for a two reasons: 1)That my experiences might be helpful to fellow members interested in audtioning these DACS. 2)Starting an interesting discussion regarding the different "sonic flavors" of these reference digital front ends. I totally agree with the statement, "if you have not heard it you don't have an opinion". Therefore, I have no comments regarding DACS from Weiss,Goldmund,Audio Aero and Burmester because I have never had the pleasure of audtioning them. I would love to hear from members who have and share their experiences with us. My overall impression is that these DACS(Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) can be grouped into two molar categories regarding their overall sonic signature. By the way, all of them can throw a large/deep soundstage with excellent layering in the acoustic space with "air" around individual players on that stage. However, than they start to part company into two major categories. Category #1) These DACS "flavors" revolve around pristine clarity, fine sharp details,speed,very extended top/bottom frequencies,and great PRAT. These DACS never sound "etched" or "in your face" but are more "upfront" then "layed back" in their presentation. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Dcs,Ensemble,Meitner. My personnal favorite in this group is the Ensemble, which I owned for two years. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Wilson,Thiel,Dynaudio, Focal/JM Labs. Category #2) These DACS "flavors" revolve around a "musical/organic" sense, natural timbres,and an easy flowing liquidity. Their "less forward" presentation my give the impression of less detail, but I think in this case its an illusion fostered by their more relaxed/organic manner. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts. I did find that the tube DACS did not have the top/bottom frequency extenstion and PRAT of the SS DACS in this bracket. For me, the Accustic Arts DAC1-MK3 gave me the best of both categories, therefore it is now the resident DAC in my system. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Magnepan,Von Schweikert,Sonus Faber. Well, it's all just my opinion regarding these digital pieces, but I hope this post was at least informative/somewhat interesting and would lend itself to other GON members sharing their impressions, not about what DAC is the "BEST" in the world, but your personnal taste and synergy with your system.
Showing 50 responses by exlibris
Teajay, Excellent thread. Your friend with the EMM Labs gear, is his transport the CDSD or a modified Philips SACD 1000? Is his amplification tubes or solid state? I am using EMM Labs DCC2 DAC but your review (and the Dagogo review) of the AA DAC1 mk3 has me wanting to try an all-Accustic Arts digital front end before committing to the purchase of an EMM Labs CDSD transport. |
Right now I have the EMM Labs DCC2. It's great but I need to 'simplify' for personal reasons. I tried the TL51 this week. It did some amazing things and some not so good. I want to blame the 'not so good' on the coax digital cable that I borrowed. I tried to use a higher-quality AES/EBU connector but the DCC2 wouldn't lock on to the clock signal for some reason. The same cable worked fine from my Philips SACD 1000. |
Thanks Teajay and Branimir. I'm currently using the EMM-modified transport and I'm -not- getting great bottom-end extension or low-frequency energy. The foundation and substructure of my soundstage is missing and I'm not getting all the low-frequency ambient cues, spatial information, and details that I know should be there. [I use four 250 watt monoblocks and I have a pair of REL subs but they just aren't receiving this low frequency info from my front end]. The little CEC TL-51X did a much better job in this area than my current transport. With the right transport and DAC I know I can get what I'm looking for without changing anything else in my system. It goes without saying that the EMM transport would help quite a bit but I'm thinking that I still might be wanting a more category #2 sound. I've read three reviews of the Weiss gear that specifically mention this frequency range as a particular strength. I'm also interested in trying some of the non-upsampling, no-filter DACs to see how they do in this area. |
I use Acoustic Zen "Absolute" cables. I've tried some 'bass rich' cables but found them to be wanting in other areas. I use the EMM Labs "ST Glass" optical connection between my digital stuff. I suppose I could use other cables but then I would be using my transport's clock rather than my DAC's clock. |
I should note that I'm not necessarily looking for powerful bass; what I want is more low-frequency "energy" and detail so that the bottom of my soundstage becomes "visible". In other words, I want to be able to "see" what floor-covering material was used in the venue where the recording took place. |
Teajay, I use Absolute ICs and speaker wire. I also use Harmonix PCs. I appreciate your choice in speakers as well. It looks like we are after the same sound. The following is completely off-topic... I'm not one to rave about any components (I have never done so on this forum or any other) but I feel compelled to extol the virtues of the Sound Application Reference Linestage (AC device) that I just purchased. I have tried the Equi=tech; IsoClean; Harmonix; etc., etc.; I even tried running my entire system off batteries (it worked really well, by the way) but nothing has even come close to the performance of this product. It has absolutely transformed my system. It is stunning. I catch myself smiling and shaking my head at the new level of performance of my system. I haven't tried everything out there so I am hesitant to say that there is nothing better...what the heck "this is the BEST AC conditioner ever made!" Everything I've tried (except the battery unit) is -incredibly- inferior. I cannot overstate the magnificence of this product. To put it in perspective: Earlier this year I changed amps. I was using a $1,00, 125 wpc, solid state, stereo, Audio Refinement amp from Taiwan (I had sold my Rowland amp to buy speakers and this was all I had in the house). I now use four Manley Neo-Classic 250 monoblocks. This change was not as significant as the change made by the Sound Application Reference Linestage. I'm not exagerating and I have no financial interest in the Sound Application company. One caveat: The electricity where I live is horrid and I am plagued by RFI and EMI. Others may not experience such a profound change. End of rave| Can you post some of DeWulf's bizarre conclusions about the Weiss, or contact me off-list? What is his reference digital front end? |
Branimir and Teajay, I will be auditioning an Audiomat DAC in the next couple of weeks and I'll let you know what I think. Transports: I'm hesitant to invest any significant amount of money in any transport because I believe the future of high end digital playback will be from magnetic disks rather than optical ones (i.e. hard drives; not CDs). Some say that this future is now upon us. Whether we like it or not, hard-drives will *definitely* be the future of digital playback for the general consumer and that future IS now. DACs: I believe that there will always be a place for high-end DACs. I can't believe that a computer sound card will ever sound good. There is just too much noise inside a computer for an analogue signal to be near one of these machines. Instead, the file read from the hard drive should be sent to an external DAC for conversion to analogue. This need not be a USB-enabled DAC. Companies like Empirical Audio sell audiophile-grade, USB-to-SPDIF converters that enable us to connect our DAC of choice to a hard drive. |
Branimir, You mentioned that the ARC CD7 was the best #2 sounding unit that you had heard so far. Would that include any of the following: Zanden; Audio Note; Audio Aero; or Reimyo? Thanks as always. One other poster to this thread was hoping that we could come up with names for #1 and #2 sound. HP's 'yin' and 'yang' are good. For what it's worth, in my own mind I've been using 'truth' and 'beauty'. I realize, however, that the terms are flawed in their narrowness. |
Branimir, I too owned an ARC CD3 mkII and thought it was a very good piece. I also thought (as you note in a different thread) that it was clearly not as good as the EMM Labs combo. I'm very interested to hear your full opinion of the CD-7 (in a few weeks). The fact that it has a massive power supply and uses tubes has me very interested. |
Teajay, I'll start by saying that the Absolute speaker wires made a much bigger difference in my system compared with the ICs. The difference between the Absolute speaker wire and the rest of the speaker wires in the AZ line-up is huge. The ICs: I started out with Cardas Golden Reference and then went to the AZ Silver Ref II. I found them to be more open and airy with a better sense of space and life. Things were, however, a little 'tipped up' and aggressive for my liking. I then tried out the Absolute and it was better in every sense when compared to the Silver Ref IIs. Everything just appeared to be 'more real'. The cable didn't seem to add anything or highlight anything. Images had more weight and density the air between them was well drawn. I was hesitant to spend 2.5 times more for the Absolutes so I decided to try the PAD Venustas. It provided a very 'substantive' soundstage; like the Cardas but more open and more delineated. No matter how much I liked it, however, it just didn't seem to get across the emotion in singers' voices the way the Silver Refs did. In the end I bought the Absolutes because they simply bettered all the other cables in every respect. Unlike the speaker cables, however, the difference was not 'night and day'. My gut feeling is that I won't find speaker cables in this price range that I like better than the Absolutes but that there *may* be ICs around that offer better value than the Absolute. Having said this, I too have yet to discover any major (or minor) short-comings that concern me. |
Teajay, I'm using the Acoustic Zen MC-squared digital cable with RCA connector. I know it isn't the best. I do, however, like it better than the Cardas digital cable that I'm using on my EMM gear (surprisingly, I'm not a fan of EMM's ST Glass cable in my set-up). The AZ cable, the AA transport, and the AA DAC now have 53 hours on them. I really think the combination could use a lot more break-in time. Right now the music is struggling to emerge from a dense fog. |
Teajay, Here is a short report from the 124 hour mark. The sound has opened up considerably. It really does sound quite a bit different from the EMM/Philips combo. It is darker, softer, and each image is more closed in (soundstage dimensions are about equal, however). This may have to do with the level of break-in and/or the AZ cable. Some listeners may welcome the black background and the softer feel of the AA pieces. On bad CDs it is certainly less sibilant than the EMM/Philips. Personally, I like the vividness, immediacy, and breath of life that the EMM offers. IMHO: Right now the AA sounds like a great stereo; the EMM sounds like real life (warts and all). I don't really want to say more because, as you said, we really should give the AA stuff at least a week or two to break in. It may continue to improve to a level beyond that of the EMM stuff; who knows? I have no plans to try and borrow or buy a different digital cable for the test so we are stuck with the AZ. Rest assured that power cords and everything else in the system are exactly the same when going from player to player. |
Teajay, I've only heard the MBL digital gear in a couple of all-MBL systems. I must have liked them because I ended up buying the speakers. :-) By the way, I did manage to get a Stealth cable to try with the AA. It should arrive before Friday. Breaking in this cable will delay my report on the AA gear. I'm actually thinking of taking a new approach to my system-building. I'm going to experiment with preamps before making any decisions on digital. I have two -gut feelings- at this time: 1. the EMM Labs is very likely to stand up to all challengers. 2. if I do change, I will go to a tubed DAC. |
John, Thank you. I haven't heard the two side by side but I would have thought that the AA Cap II would have been pretty much on par with the Reimyo and that significant difference in price could not be justified. Interesting. Yes, the CD duplicator is very good. I've had a technician take out the switching power supply on mine and replace it with, what is essentially, two linear supplies: one outboard and one in the unit. The improvement was greater than I could have hoped for. I posted my findings in the "How come there is no thread on the RealityCheck?" thread. |
Has anyone heard the new Reimyo DAP-777 (mkII)? If so, how does its presentation differ from the old model? Here is a nice review of it: http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/reimyo_dap777.htm |
Teajay, My present tube preamp isn't flavour #2 enough for my taste. What I want to do is either tube roll or find a different preamp. Once I have the rest of the system in place I will then be in a better position to look into my source components. You're right, at that point a tubed DAC may turn out to be too much of a good thing. By the way, I still have high hopes for the AA. |
Branimir, Thank you for your suggestions. I used the internal pre of the DCC2 for about 8 months. It is very good. I moved to the Hovland this summer. It is better than the the DCC2 pre but I knew then that it would be a transition piece. I'm considering the Aesthetix Callisto Signature and the Emotive Audio Epifania. I'd also like to hear the Shindo Vosne-Romanee in my system but that is not likely to happen. I tried a Jadis pre a couple years ago and didn't do much for me. I also tried the Manley 300B but it was a little too beautiful. |
My amps sound quiet but boring with balanced connection. RCA sounds much better. I'm not sure about DAC to pre since my pre doesn't have balanced inputs. Though the Callisto is balanced I think I would run it single-ended. In J. Valin's review he prefered in with RCAs. The Epifania is single-ended only. |
Teajay, I just listen to the Accustic Arts gear for about an hour. The Stealth cable should arrive in 2 to 4 days. The AA is better than it was last weekend and much better than it was in the very early stages. At this point I can honestly say that it does something better than my front end: the soundstage is bigger and 'bloomier.' At this point I'll state the usual disclaimer: I'm not using the CDSD in my front end. I can also state that discs that sound extra harsh and aggressive are more listenable on the AA gear. I still have a long list of things that I prefer with my front end but I won't say any more until I've changed cables. Thanks for the tip on the Einstein. The positive things that I've personally read about it have mostly come from dealers so far but I will add it to my list. |
Teajay, Thanks. The Stealth cable has not arrived yet. Hopefully it will be there when I get home from work. The AA is sounding much better. As it is, I could live with either my set-up or the AA. Your characterization of the AA is accurate. The AA is: -more relaxed -has slightly better 'action,' in that in projects into the room better. -is slightly more organic and balanced x-a little veiled x-'thin' sounding The EMM (without CDSD) is: -more transparent -has better body, density, weight, three-dimensionality -a slightly deeper soundstage x-a little aggressive x-still a little thin (in comparison with the Audio Aero Prestige on Redbook) I'm looking for something beyond what either front end is giving me right now. I may find that by using the Stealth cable with the AA. I may find that by upgrading to the CDSD. I may have to go with something completely different. |
Branimir, I look forward to your review of the EMM gear. Teajay, Some bad news: the Sextet cable has yet to arrive and I have to give the AA DAC back to the owner this evening. There is a good chance that I can get the AA gear and the Sextet together in my system after CES. I will be sure to post my impressions if I do. |
Teajay, I believe he was using the Wyetech Topaz amp (or monoblocks?). I can't remember the name of the speakers. His stuff is always changing because he is a reviewer. What preamp finished number 2 after your auditions? I agree with you regarding the Opal: dynamic, detailed, transparent and not "tubby" sounding at all. I would add that it gives an incredible amount contol/grip over the system and that it has great bass extension. Soundstaging and layering were similar to the preamp section of the DCC2 that I was using. I heard it when my system was very different. I hope to get it back in for an audition in the new year. |