rated power test results sound & vision mag

i'm shopping a new avr $700 range but i would like to get more for less. i'm currently looking at h/k 430 onkyo tx sr702 and integra dtr-6.5. leaning tward the onkyo for thx and value. then i came across this http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm

assuming this information is correct there seems to be some real winners and loosers here. i sure don't want to spend my hard earned scratch on some high dollar avr that barly does 30 watts when all ch used. i thought the thx select rating required it preform to a min power rating.

does anybody have lab results for the onkyo tx sr-702 and or the integra dtr-6.5? i feel no need to check up on harman kardon but it would also be interesting to see real preformance. i have been searching but dont have accesss to audiophile.com or other paysites.

looking forward to any comments and suggestions thank you all.
Here's a link to the original article.

I've been saying for a few years now that most of the surround sound receivers on the market are pitiful in performance. Not only does their power drop as more channels are engaged, their output at lower impedances REALLY tends to suffer. When i made previous statements pertaining to this, others challenged my comments. As such, i had provided previous lists of a few units that actually did okay, both in multi-channel mode and at lower impedances. I have since disposed of that info, so i won't be of much help here.

As such, if one is going to use a receiver, don't expect much overall sound quality out of it. If you want to obtain the best results out of one of these "lame duck" units as they are, stick to higher impedance speakers that are also higher than average sensitivity. This reduces the load on the amplifier two-fold i.e. in terms of current requirements due to the higher impedance and voltage requirements in terms of the higher sensitivity. Using anything but speakers that fit BOTH of those descriptions basically sets yourself up for very poor performance.

Obviously, there are a few units that are better than others, but as you can see, most units don't even come close to meeting spec's. Now you know why "vintage" receivers are going for so much money on Ebay now. That is, as bad as some of those old boat-anchors sound compared to good quality individual components, they still sound MILES better than some of the best receivers available today. Sean
As a side note, the last receivers that i purchased for friends / family were quite a while back. As it turns out, these units were on this list and actually did MUCH better than the average. I'm talking about the Sherwood AM-9080, which was rated at 120 wpc and actually delivered 108 wpc. While it didn't quite meet spec, it didn't fall too far below that. Newer Sherwood's appear to be "gutless wonders" like many of the other products out there.

It is pathetic to see units like the SONY STR-DA4ES. This receiver was rated at 110 wpc for 7 channels, yet when all 7 channels were driven, the receiver shut down. They couldn't even obtain a power output measurement due to the protection circuitry kicking in. The Sony SONY STR-DB1070 wasn't much better as it was rated at 100 wpc with 6 channels and could only must 31 wpc at clipping with all channels driven. This is almost as bad as the KENWOOD VR-7080, which was rated at 100 x 6 channels and clipped at 35 wpc. Then again, if you really want to see how bad things could get, take a look at the MARANTZ SR7200. Rated at 105 wpc x 6 channels, it was only able to deliver 27 wpc at clipping. PATHETIC !!!

The scary thing that i've noticed about this is that some brands do pathetically poor, regardless of the cost or power rating. As such, one almost has to know exactly which models from which brands are worth looking at or knowing to avoid. While none of their models were "piss poor", even the highly respected Denon's didn't do all that well. A couple of Onkyo's and Yamaha's knocked them out of the ballgames too.

The only brand that i see truly conistent performance from is Harman Kardon. Given HK's reputation "way back when", i'm glad to see that they aren't just a name anymore. The NAD's and the lone Outlaw didn't do "too bad", making them possibly worth looking into. Other than that, those looking for a receiver are in for some slim pickings. Sean
My rec is if you cannot afford a pre-pro / amp setup, get a reciever that has pre-outs so upgrading the amp quality is less expencive as the reciever can be used as a pre-pro after you buy some external amps.

ive been running a denon avr 3805 and think the sound is great for a reciever (my amp broke and is about to be sent in for repair), but i do miss my amp.
my orignal plan was to buy an hk avr 235 and look for a good 5 ch amp. still may be the best way to go. then i got to looking at the onkyo sr701 and i like the features (thx select, pure audio, input buttons on the front, good remote). my front speakers are nht 2.5i, need lots of power. the results of the sr-501 are ok but nr901 is awful. integra dtr 7.2 also looks bad. but i'm hoping the sr701 is more like the sr-501 at least 75% of rated power. if you look at the onkyo web site the nr-901 is reviewed by sound and vision mag. the same test that put it on the list here. they said circut protection limited the output to 50 watts. hopefuly this will eliminate the possibility of clipping. since the sr-501 does the 47 watts mabey the sr series is more capeable in that department. i have seen the hk-635 for around $650 on line but i dont know it's thx status. i want my house to sound like a theater. the rear sp are cerwin vega re-30 and should help with the effects. if any one hase any more lists of rated power vs lab results, they would be much apreaciated. somebody has to have done a test of the onkyo tx-sr702 and or integra dtr-6.5.(they seem to be the same thing just a couple of different features and $200).

thanks again all
gmarcotte: 50 wpc is not enough to drive an NHT with any type of authority.

As far as THX certification goes, that doesn't mean squat. If THX certification meant something, all of those horrid HT receivers wouldn't be nearly as horrid or anemic as they are. Sean
i will not pay $700 for an avr that wont do more than around 80 watts per channel. i'm hoping that is what the sr702 will do. that is around the same watts as the hk at this price point. i have listened to the integra with the same specks powering a 10000 pair of mcintosh speakers and it sounded pretty darn good. the salesman had it in 5.1 durring the listening of james talor live. with the big screen going it was almost like being there. drums seemed to be right there in the room.

anyway i do have a seperate amp i can use if needed, carver tfm15, that i am using now. i do like to know how many watts i am using in my mains (power meters) so i can leave about 20% of power in the amp for headroom.

mabey i should just get a panasonic xr70 100 watts x 5 for $300. in the mean time i will continue to search for onkyo tx sr702 test results and hope for good news.
Look for a lower powered unit that has the features that you want, along with preamp level out's. You can then run the Carver for your mains and the remaining channels for your center and surrounds. This will minimize your expenditures while taking a huge load off of the power supply of the receiver. In doing so, the available wattage to the remaining channels will increase in equal measure, allowing better performance all the way around. If & when you choose to upgrade into separate components, you won't be out nearly as much money had you went for a larger, more powerful receiver.

As a side note, i recently purchased a "mint condition" $1200 Pre / Pro / Tuner with a phono section, Dolby Digital and DTS in the box for $250 here on Agon as a gift for someone. On top of getting everything that originally came with the unit, the seller also included an upgraded universal remote control that retailed for appr $150. As such, you might want to look into something like this for now, as it will allow even better potential performance than the RX & separate 2 ch amp. The reason for this? The sagging power supply in the receiver that feeds the amplifier section may also feed all of the other circuitry within the preamp / processor. The end result would be a more stable performing Pre / Pro due to completely isolating that circuitry from the demands of any / all power amplification. Sean
Sean, thanks for the link to s&v and the comments.
i thought about buying used but i really do want the latest thing here.
i still like the tx sr702 for the features like thx, pure audio, good remote. i don't know if it has a clipping indicator, but i am downloading the manual now. i am conserned about the power though. i want ref levels. i am hoping they have addresed the power problem. its funny that the onkyo ds555 575 575x were all rated at 70 wpc and they did 70 x 5. but some of the others were way off.

i find it hard to believe the sr501 is going to preform the same as the nr901 even though the watts x 5 are vertually the same. there has to be more to it. there are some different features and a $700 price difference. i do know the 501 has no pre-out. so it dos't even make the list.

i have mixed views on hk. i have owned one for years and had no problems. but the newer ones dont have buttons for inputs. you have to hit a button repeatedly to scroll through imputs. this is not for me. lookes like denon is similar. not shure. and cheaper hks dont have thx that i am aware of. so i would only be so happy with a 335 or whatever.

have started to look at marantz. i don't know anything about them at all.

list of features that are imporntant to me:

thx, i want a receiver that is going to take over once it is calibrated. tell me how loud it is supposed to be.

power to go to ref levels.

good 2 ch stereo

clipping indicators ( do many receivers have them and which ones? )

am i rambling yet? oh!

preamp output. i did notice that onkyo has a 100 wpc amp for $250. don't know any thing about it. but if i did use an amp wouldnt the main amp still be producing a signal wether i am using it or not. not really helping out the power supply. i have been thinking about the amp + low pass filter or some way of bi-amping. or mabey just a good 300 wpc bryston for front 2. so i can give it a full range signal.

will using a seperate affect the thx system?
will my nht 2.5i be damaged using thx? effects
are there any receivers with clipping indicators?

my speakers are nht 2.5i fronts polk rti38 center (temp) cerwin vega re30 with 12" woofers for rears. (hope to help with effects)

thanks again guys. i hope you get your amp back soon Slappy.