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Proac 2.5's-something not quite right- ideas?

Ok Audiogoners I've just recently required a pair of Proac Response 2.5's.
My system is Ayre CX-7,Ayre AX-7-using custom made balanced interconnect (tried Cardas Golden Ref.happy with this)and Vantage Marina Speaker cable(bi-wire)-my old speakers were Proac Studio 150's.
My sound before was excellent-worked with my wide musical tastes,subtle and detailed when required and enough oomph when playing Rock or Electronica.
Typically I though my speakers were the weak link and have always wanted to hear/own 2.5's.

What I am hearing with the 2.5's is a jump in scale of presentation and more air/detail around instruments,on certain recordings it sounds really great on others something is missing,the smoothness and clarity I associate with the Proac sound.
The second problem is the scale of the bass,it may just take adjusting to and whilst it doesn't sound overpowering in terms of the overall recording (vocals/details etc. are still there)it really does seem too much for home listening-more like a gig or club experience.
If I put the 150's back in,the bottom line is they sound more musical overall.

I don't believe it's my room which is large-18 feet wide by some 30 plus feet long-I have 3m high ceiling -whilst speaker placement makes a slight difference (I've been messing about with that)it is not a major influence on the general effects.
I've also tried ceramic tiles on my carpet with the speakers on top-again not a major difference.
Everything in my system has been checked-the speakers are set up per instruction and the replacement effect of the 150's proves nothing is amiss imho.

I have several theories as to what might be wrong-the only previous owner only listened to Jazz and Classical and not at as loud levels as I do-the speakers have not been used in the last two years.
So if run in/break in is a factor (I've only got about 8 hours on them)can I expect the missing resolution to come into focus?
Can I expect the bass driver to change?- since perhaps it has never been fully tested with fast/deep modern bass.
Does my increased listening volume mean more break in was required anyway?

My biggest fear is the scale of the 2.5's is not to my taste and that they are so revealing that I am hearing a grain in some recordings that I didn't hear before.

I've read enough about these speakers to know some how I'm not getting what I should and I instictively know on many of the tracks and CD's I'm playing that I am not getting the enjoyment I was before despite some more space and detail.

Thoughts?
ben_campbell

Showing 10 responses by ben_campbell

ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
Neither of you guys think the fact my speakers have been lying cold for two years (the seller obviously checked them before shipping them)has any effect?
ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
Some interesting theories-I'll list them all here since some have been mailed off list and this info. may be of use now and in the future to others.

1.STUDIO SERIES Vs RESPONSE-one Audiogoner auditioned the Studio 200's against the 2.5's and preferred the Studio's.
He found them warmer-I can relate to that to an extent but I still hear a grain in some recordings I wouldn't expect with Proacs although the 2.5's sound fantastic on some recordings (primarily acoustic jazz,vocals etc)they are not at this stage as robust or enjoyable as the 150's.
It could well just be a matter of taste.

2.BREAK IN-again I've had the advice that lying cold so long the speakers simply need broken in again-I truly hope it is this one although my flat does not lend itself to the usual reverse polarity/duvet blasting it out method.
I'll need to be patient something I'm not known for.

3.PLACEMENT-my set up is perhaps not ideal however I've tried really given the Proac's room to breathe and not found a major difference-I'll try again and get back with the info.

4.CABLING-my set up before really didn't show major difference on interconnects-my Vantage speaker cables were certainly better than the Audioquest Midnight 3 I had before.
Perhaps not my system is more prone to be affected by this-I'll try to experiment here.

5.CINEMATIC SYSTEMS THEORY-I can relate to his theory on the choice of tube amplification to temper the thump as he calls it.Whilst the DIY project may well have thrown up some great info-this is not a route for me personally-it'll simply be easier to go back to the 150's.

Anyway away for another blast at them and see where I stand today.
ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
Opalchip-cracking post and how does this fit in for an update.

I hadn't listened to anything since yesterday but left the speakers running for about 4 hours last night.

Does break in take place?-I dunno I keep an open mind but I do know straight out their boxes they took more power from my amp to drive-this changed over the first day's listening which was Friday.

Today however things have really started to fall into place-that missing resolution, warmth,Factor X call it what you will- has certainly appeared.
It's as if the seperation in the music now seems better held together.

What sounded grainy before now sounds clearer.
What sounded good before now sounds very good indeed.
The overpowering thump with mid-bass in particular sounds more controlled,as does the bass in general.

The detail is excellent and perhaps the limitations of certain recordings still cause a bit of disappointment however this is in the context of even being impressed by other cuts on the same album (Check out Custard Pie by Led Zep on Physical Graffiti and see if the following track The Rover justs sounds better recorded).

Most importantly today is the first listening session where I've got caught up in the music-it'll be interesting to see how this unfolds.
ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
Yesterday was interesting because I threw some more different music into the mix with no further running in of the speakers.

The day befores listening was nearly all material I'd previously heard on the 2.5's.

Yesterday I heard some of the same traits that bothered me before-it does seem to depend on the type of recordings-well recorded stuff with space in the mix sounds superb but sometimes more complex rougher recordings does throw in some grain,the thump effect seemed to bother me more also.

At this stage I would probably agree I'm just adjusting to the 2.5's presentation.
Running in the speakers by force is just not feasable for me at this stage but I have to say I feel a lot closer to these speakers than I did at first.
ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
Artk-I think you are potentially right on most of the factors except the Ayre/Proac relationship (it has worked for me very well for a couple of years and on a lot of things the 2.5's totally sing)and the 2.5's filling my room-no problem there either.

I think the other three are very possible in any given combination.
ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
Gunbei-I'm holding off changing anything at the moment as I still don't feel 100% sure of how I feel about the 2.5's-in real terms I've spent quite a short time with them.
I do believe I am very likely to stick with my components.

It's been a confusing journey so far but whilst I've been confused slightly in the past (not to this extent by a major system change for a while)I do believe in time I will be sure of how I feel.

Certainly one Audiogoner found the Studio series warmer.

I do to some extent regret posting so soon on this but it may be a worthwhile experience to share.
ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
Cinematic Systems-I don't think I need a meter.
I understand the level I need to play my music to enjoy it and I don't think a meter can help with that.

Maybe the louder you play the Proacs the worse they get but it's not a factor that I can relate to at the moment.

At this still very early stage I would go with this factor at the moment.
A different presentation with certain music due to increased detail and layers in the mix which perhaps I am mistaking or have mistaken for grain-the more I listen the more I am convinced the holographic presentation of these speakers is leading to the confusion on what I expect to hear based on listening to one system for nigh on two years without change.
I have also tended to worry about a small number of recordings that have bugged me rather than enjoying the obvious improvements on the vast majority I have played.

I keep an open mind with any of the others factors but have to say over the last two nights only picking recordings that I consider impressive I have been delighted with the 2.5's presentation.

I have no intention at this stage of changing anything else until I am sure I have lived with these speakers and given them some hours being pushed.
When I am at that stage I may consider other options and hopefully then any money spent or changes made will be made out of greed for more improvement rather than believing change of cables etc. is going to fix a fundamental problem for me.Although at this stage I'm hoping there won't be one and I'm optimistic I'm in the early stages of a long happy relationship.
ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
I guess again the reason I stated the club like experience is down to the recordings-I have a few where the bass and mid-bass is just seriously in your face.

The reason I think is simple the tracks were recorded like that but the difference from the 150's to the 2.5's on this is very big.
ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
Artk-logically why would the loss matter in the room when I was using smaller speakers before?
That doesn't make sense to me....at all.

I may be wrong but I think Opalchip was really on the money with his assessment.

Perhaps the speakers have run in a little but I'm no longer hearing the differences I remember-the mid-bass and bass thump no longer seems as strong.....I do believe as Opalchip predicted my brain has adjusted.

However putting the 150's back in will be interesting and I may do that once I've lived with the 2.5's a tad more.

At this stage my gut reaction is that the 2.5's are better than the 150's-scale and detail but perhaps (and that is just a perhaps) that they haven't quite lived up to my expectations.
ben_campbell OP
1,169 posts
 
An update where I am with the speakers now a few weeks down the line.

Firstly as I stated above, a little patience on my part would have been prudent because it does take a little time to take in and live with changes in your system.

I believe now the 2.5's are better than the 150's but I have to say the Studio 150's are a speaker I could have lived with and aren't as far off the 2.5's as I expected them to be.

I believe the clarity issue actually now to be a volume issue.I believe I wasn't playing the 2.5's loud enough-part of the reason for this is the numerical readout on the AX-7 which I think throws a visual distraction into the equation and the other is the scale of sound from the 2.5's-presenting such a bigger soundstage probably made me nervous to listen to them at the right levels. I've also moved in the last 10 months which makes me a little nervous about annoying the neighbours-I stay in a tenement flat(apartment).

Yes the bass is on a scale I'm not used too but the speakers are either running in or I'm adjusting to the sound because it doesn't irk me as much as it did and sounds more balanced.

The key moment came when I put the 150's back in and let them run in for a couple of days (I was auditioning them for a potential buyer-who bought them)-some of the differences I thought I had heard (more tuneful controlled bass,more clarity) weren't in fact there-I had by this time adjusted the volume slightly when listening to the 2.5's.

There are other aspects to consider I do believe the positioning of my speakers could be better but it is a little awkward with my room set up.
Over the next week or so I am going to put my system back on Audiogon.

Thanks very much to everyone who posted on this I found quite a few of the comments useful and insightful.
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