Primaluna or not Primaluna


Hej

I have been hesitated some time now between buying new speakers or a new amplifier and have decided I will buy a new amplifier.

My list of demands:
It will take EL34, KT77, KT88 and 6550. Bonus if it takes KT120.
It will give at least 35 w with EL34 and 45 w with KT88.
It will have easy biasing using a screwdriver and with somekind of build in meter. In worst case autobiase will do.
It will use tube rectification and not solid state rectification (because I have heard solid state rectification takes away the tube sound).
It will not cost more than aprox $4000.


I have had a Line Magnetic LM-34IA once but had to much problems with the quality (bad solderings and bad balance between left and right).
First I thought it sounded quite good, but after have heard a Audion Audio Stirling EL34 SET amplifier I changed my mind. Now the LM-34AI sounded just OK.
I was told that Stirling EL34, with 12 w should be enough for listening at normal volumes with my 89dB speakers. But it was not. So here I am…
(And yes I know; a push-pull amp will never sound as a SET amp).


I have read about several amplifiers but none of them seems to fit my demands.

Here are my notes:
Line Magnetic LM-88IA   -   Just KT88. Bad experience with LM, both quality and sound.
Audio Research I/50   -   Just 6550 tubes. Too much hassle when adjusting bias.
Rogue Cronus Magnum III   -   Very mixed opinions. Solid state rectification.
Raven Blackhawk Mk 3.1   -   Just 6L6 tubes. Have to be imported from the US.
Tsakiridis Aelos Plus   -  Just KT88 tubes.
Fezz Silver Luna Prestige   -   Just EL34 tubes.
Fezz Titania   -   Just KT120 tubes (and maybe KT150 and KT170 too).
Cary SLI-80HS   -   Many bad opinions. Solid state rectification.
Jadis   -   Either too weak or too expencive.
Primaluna   -   ???

What makes me a little ”worried” is that Primaluna has so many build in features which are supposed to make my life as a tube amplifier owner easier.
I mean, doesn’t these fetures affect the sound? ”Less is more”?

 

If you have any thoughts or experience about this, please let me know.

simna

Showing 7 responses by holmz

PrimaLuna sounds pretty good.
But I’d sell mine and get a Class-D if a buyer approached.

What speaker are they pushing around?

But will it really be enough for my 89dB speakers? At least they claims that.
 

If you listen loud then the PL is probably better, and if it is quiet maybe you could get by with less watts.

 

@holmz 

Why would you sell your Primaluna for a class D amp if you think Primaluna sounds good? They sound quite different, don't they?

We have a HT set up as well, so the tubes are not really needed for that.
And the good Class-D seems like it is pretty good.

The PL is good, but I do not know your speakers, and speakers make a bigger difference than amps… generally.

My speakers are Tannoy Legacy Eaton.

So you said, but I still don’t know them.

 

It will use tube rectification and not solid state rectification (because I have heard solid state rectification takes away the tube sound).

I am sure you’ve heard that, I am not sure it is true though.

 

4k is a lot of money though.
I’d personally be more tempted to get a TDAI-1120 or a set of active speakers, unless the room is in pretty deadened shape already.

The PL is pretty easy though, you just run the cables and it sounds good.
I got a set of KT120s - but did not put them in yet. It sounds fine with the 8x EL34s.

Like @buellrider97 mentioned The Quicksilver… and Bryson, Ayre, and a bunch of other SS amps can also sound pretty good.

Less seems to be available in Class-D.

And of course a bunch of the tube amps.

 

Generally I find that the speakers and room have a bugger contribution.

As tube-amp.: PrimaLuna isn’t  à “wohw”-amp. , not  bad but more An amp for “beginners”. :sound is à little bit sharp, not so detailfull, is very open.

I am not sure what:

  1. sharp and detail full mean, but I would expect sharp to be detailfull.
  2. nor what “wohw” translates to?
  3. and I am only about 50% certain on what “open” means.

Mine, on “Triode”, seems less full of harmonic distortion than on Utra-linear, but UL is nice for some gendres like rock.

Vocals and piano seem better in Triode to my ear.
(Maybe ^that^ is “open”?)

Personally I would not want it to be more tubey, but many people like that sound.

 

I dislike sibilance, and most tube amps do not grate on me, just some are more tubey and harmonically rich and other are “less exciting” and seem cleaner.
I generally like the later ones.

When I am sort of “meh” on an amp, that is usually a sign that it is doing what it does and not adding a lot.

It might compress, or something like that, in the higher dynamic range bursts… but it does not tend to get the grainy treble when the music gets loud, like some older SS amps did. 

If the OP likes a tube sound then they will likely prefer to run it in UltraLinear (UL).

Hence my earlier comment on Class-D (and just using a tube pre)… that seems like it is another viable option, and after having had the PL power amp *(Dialogue Premium HP) for a year+ I like it, but am not wedded to it… which means that I guess it is good.
And I have been playing it a lot more in Triode mode lately.
(Not as exciting, but more airy and recessed.)

I would suggest that the OP may want to listen to one in a shop and see if they like UL or triode… as that is akin to some of the difference when moving up and down the tubey sound spectrum of amps.

 

I prefer: Ear 509, VAC phi 300.1 , Wavac  805m , Audio Aero Prestige , Mal Valve 2 ,…( Less: Macintosh, Audio Research, Jadis,…)

^THIS^ Seems like it may be very useful @lukaske 
How do those amps fall on a spectrum?
How is the AR and Jadis sound compared to the Ear (etc.)?
Are they warmer or colder? Or what?

Several of your sugestions is not availeble in Sweden (where I live). If I was in the US it would be pretty easy to order an amplifier from some small interesting brand and have the option to return it in, say, 60-days, if I don’t like it. That will not be so easy when living in Sweden. And if I took a chance and order a amp for $4000 it would be $5500 when I would receive it due to tax and fees.

Yes, there are always other amlifiers that sounds better. Even if I buy one for 10k there will be better ones.

Hence the mention of Class-D.

Purifi is over the bridge in Denmark, and a few EU manufacturers have amps using their modules. It may be a lot easier to find a demo.

PL is also Denmark/China so that is likely easier choice in Sweden.

 

FWIW, what I am getting from what I have read on this site is that the preamp has more influence on the sound than the amp does.

A tube preamp feeding a SS (A/B) or Class-D can sound pretty good.

… and it obviates needing to find an amp with the transformers that do not saturate, or allows speakers with very difficult loads to be run.

easy speakers can use Class-A, A/B, D or a Triode designs, but the difficult ones need push-pull tubes, A/B or D.

… and there may be good choices (combo) in all topologies… and there may also be bad ones - which are heavily driven by the speakers.