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Phono stage w/automatic Load-Impedanance.

Yes, automatic load impedance! The WLM PHONATA offers very high dynamics as a result of its very special design (see below)

A few years ago i purchased a slightly used demo unit from Australia. It was reasonable priced (mint- condition) WLM PHONATA reference MM/MC phono stage from respected WLM Acoustic brand (made in Europe). I use it since that day in my system.

a picture of the wlm phonata linked below:
http://audioaddiction.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Phonata_3XL.jpg
http://audioaddiction.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Phonata_4XL.jpg

When i bought mine demo it was newly released and totally different for previous WLM model (which was a smaller tube stage). The reference WLM Photana is not a tube stage. I'm not sure what's happened after, but probably it was not widely distributed, maybe they made first run and stop the production of this nice unit. They never updates their own website with info about this new unit. It's impossibe to find any reviews online and i assumed there are not so many users.

I wonder if anyone on AudioGon aware of this ice nproduct. I'm sure most of you familiar with amazing range of WLM speakers and different Tube Amps.

But do you know anything about WLM Photana Referense Phono Stage MM/MC ? It has some interesting features such as AUTOMATIC LOAD IMPEDANCE and 2 RIAA CURVES. It comprises pinnacle circuitry and design features that have never been realized before.

The PHONATA works with two-stage amplification:

• An inductive voltage amplification stage (for MC cartridges) using high
performance professional audio step-up transformers.

• A solid state current amplification stage, using specific MOS-FET transistors with tube-typical harmonic distortion characteristics.

The PHONATA offers utterly precise RIAA equalization:

• RIAA equalization is implemented across two amplification stages (within current amplification), providing a frequency expansion from 10Hz to 50kHz (Subsonic cut below 10Hz). Selected components (1% tolerance) are used.

• RIAA equalization can be selected from two positions with a switch at the back of the unit:

- Position “high” for records produced before 1965 or to improve the performance of somewhat “darker” sounding cartridges at higher frequencies. This position provides +3dB equalization as from 5kHz and +6dB as from 10kHz.

- Position “low” for all other records The PHONATA offers automatic adjustment of Load-Impedance:

• You don’t have to adjust the load-Impedance of your cartridge (plus the interconnect-cable between cartridge and Phono-Preamplifier). It goes automatically thanks to one ingenious piece of circuitry.

• You don’t have to adjust the source voltage of your cartridge as well.

• There are no micro-switches or any other mechanical contacts in the signal-path.

Technical Data:

MC-Input Impedance Range: < 100 Ohm to 50kOhm
MM-Input Capacity: 100pF
THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) @ 1kHz: 0.01%
SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) MC: >72dB
SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) MM: >85dB
Max. Input Voltage for MC-cartridges (theoretical value): 1200mV @ <1% THD
High Performance, Professional Type Step-Up Transformers.
128x128chakster

Showing 20 responses by chakster

chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
see what's inside (Phonata in the production line):
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6139/5955227066_d440161037_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6138/5954669505_61ea0a5e6b_b.jpg

besides their own WLM equimpent they got some nice vintage stuff at their office https://www.flickr.com/photos/56576807@N05/
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
The Phonata works very well between 25 - 100 ohm cartridges. Only very low impedance cartridges like classic SPU or modern ZYX sounds better with sut or pre-pre (headamp).

Manufacturer recommend the MM input with an step-up transformer for the very low impedance carts. My headamp is Zyx CPP-1.

For cartridges with 25-100 impadance range i use Phonata MC input, my Argetnt MC500HS sounds fantastic with this phono stage.

But i would like to know who else on agon use this stage?
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
SUT or not SUT for very low impedance MC cartridges ?
depends on which SUT - no ?

Here Mr.Salvatore tested his PASSIVE class A Bent TX-103 Silver SUT against battery powered ACTIVE headamp ZYX CPP-1

source: http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Step-ups.html
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Stringreen, which phono stage do you use to adjust load-impedance ?
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Bpoletti, my AT ART2000 Ltd (similar but slightly different from your AT cart) sounds amazing with ZYX CPP-1 headamp connected to MM imput in my WLM Phonata. With direct connection to MC input on WLM Phonata it is not so chrystal clear as with ZYX headamp.
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
I definitely need to compare my Automatic Impedance Load phono tage to some other phono stages with Manual Load options if i can invite someone with such stage to my house to check this out (and drink some wine).

I have no idea how it works with Automatic Load Impedance, but i try to understand the process and need for manual load (when you don't have 10 cartridges).

What did the improvement in sound of very low coil impedance (4-6 Om) cartridges is my external cpp-1 headamp for such cartridges as ZYX or Ortofon SPU. Lewm, 4 Omega is very low coild impedance - right ? And the ouput of these cartridges also very low (about 0.24 mV).

At the same time my AT Art2000 MC cartridge impedance is 12 Omega and output voltage is 0.4 vM. Absolutely no problem with 47db gain of my WLP stage. Sounds good with auto load, but with connected external headamp cpp-1 (between cartridge and my MM input) the sound is more like on steroids.

With high output MC like 1.9 mV Argent (don't know the coil impedance) my auto-loading stage sounds simply amazing and no need to change anything.
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Bpoletti, absolutely not, i'm just a user of both products from two different companies and i paid for both units ( i do not sell them and i'm not ever reviewer). I use several different cartridges and found the "Automatic Load-Impedance" an interesting option. Would like to hear feebdacks/thoughts from agon members. Or maybe about any other MC/MM stage with "Automatic Load-Impedance" option ?

After few years of using WLM i just noticed this stage is under radar which is very strange, their speakers and tube ams are well known.
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Swampwalker, thanks for your kind offer, that would be great, but we have a problem... I'm in Saint-Petersburg (not in Florida).
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Atmasphere, seems like it's your answer to Lewm who prefer different load for different catridges?

I have no ability to change load, this is automatic option with my WLM MC 47db gain stage with build in suts. I just noticed the difference (positive) with some mc cartridges when i use additional device (active headamp with 26db gain by zyx which compete with top suts). Nakatsuka-san made it for his own cartridges and using Zyx Airy and Zyx 4D with or without his headamp i prefer to use them with his headamp (it was an improvement even with additional cable).

Zyx headamp + WLM mm stage is better for low output Zyx Cartridges than my WLM MC stage with build in suts and automatic load impedance option.
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Atmasphere, thanks for the link and your comments.
This is amazing!
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Czarivey, that's why i have Zyx CPP-1 (26db) which is not a sut, but a decent headamp. In this case i use only MM input in WLM Phonata and ZYX CPP-1 provide extra gain. But not for all cartridges it's a better solution.

Arthur Salvatore @ high-endaudio.com said:
“This is, most likely, the finest head-amp I’ve ever heard. I state this because it is competitive with the finest transformers I’ve had, while all the many other (external) head-amps I’ve heard are simply not in that league."
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
I just emailed to Herr Frick of WLM (Austria) with a link to this thread.
Really hope he can join' discussion and explain more about his product.
It's getting hot.

i just want to remind to everybody in this discussion that WLM released TWO phono stage:

1) PHONATA TUBE is their old model was available in 3 different versions such as MM ONLY, MM/MC or MM/MC with Lundahl step-up transformers.

2) the latest model is PHONATA REFERENCE (MM/MC) in a bigger cabinet. "This unique preamp has automatic impedance matching so that the input impedance for the cartridge is perfect each and every time."
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Yes, no updates on WLM website for a very long time :(

no reviews on new Phonata Reference which was the neхt model and released after their tube phono stage.

This is a google doc link to MANUAL of Phonata Reference:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7SnhzDV__cCc2lfQ0NYRnVuRlE/view?usp=sharing (anyone with this link can download .pdf file)
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Dear all, after quite some time of using different phono stages from cheap Grado PH-1, iPhono2, to the great JLTi and finally Gold Note PH-1 i have to say the old WLM Phonata is really good. For some reason the WLM bass is addictive and none of my phono stages can do the same.

Input resistors for MM carts has been upgraded to 100k Ohm Vishay Naked Foil last year. It was a huge upgrade and some of my favorite vintage MM cartridges are really really good with this phono stage.

Well, i decided to upgrade Capacitors in my WLM Phonata Reference. Last year i took some pics of the circuit and realized the original stock caps are all German made Audyn.

Constant upgrade is rule number one. Time to replace these Intertechnik Audyn MKT (Axial Metalized Polyester-foil) capacitors. Intertechnik manufacture High End Audio capacitors in Germany since 1983. As you can see my caps are 6.8 C/µF (160v) and 1.0 C/µF (250v) with 5% tolerance, they are very cheap. Right now Audyn offers much better audiophile grade caps. In the biggest capasitors test review i found that Audyn Reference, True Copper, True Copper Max and True Silver received the best verdict!

I just bought Audin Reference caps, 4 of them cost me 170 euro with shipping.

I’m thinking to upgrade stock built-in SUTs on the motherboard too. Looking for the right one from Swedish Lundahl (they made then since 1958).

Actually my stock SUTs claimed to be Lundahl too, but they does not looks like any Lundahl i can see on the official website now. Here is a picture of the motherboard with stock SUT and stock caps that i want to upgrade ASAP.

But which step-up ratio to choose?



chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
Thanks @atmasphere
Well, sadly the SUTs in my WLM are not Lundahl, i’ve noticed that, but today i got an email from Lundahl support to make sure. The SUTs are what’s WLM called professional step-up transformers. Actually the WLM Phonata model with Lundahl SUTs in 2009 catalog, but probably never was released! http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wlm8/retailprices.pdf

Anyway, it’s the right signal for me to replace them with a proper Swedish Lundahl high quality SUTs.

First recommendation by Lundahl support is this one (LL9226 / 1:10):
http://www.lundahl.se/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/9226.pdf

" LL9226 is an MC transformer based on (and pin compatible with) our classic LL9206, but with reduced copper resistance and level capability. The new design has resulted in an even better frequency response but still with enough no load impedance to maintain the LF bandwidth. The transformer is built up from two coils, each coil with one secondary winding surrounded by two primary windings. Advantages with this structure are excellent frequency response and high immunity to surrounding magnetic fields. All winding ends are available on the pins. Thus, the transformer can be used with a set of different turns ratios. The LL9226 core is our cobalt based uncut amorphous strip core. The transformer is housed in a mu metal can."

I hope experienced users can review this to help me with a best choice

chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
@lewm we’re talking about internal SUTs on the motherboard inside WLM phono stage.

WLM Phonata has "Automatic Load Impedance for MC" as its unique feature or a simple marketing? I wish to know, the unit is long time out of production, company went out of business and returned re-branded with different owners, strange story. No tech support from WLM for old products.

As our Fleib pointed out it can be just a "fixed impedance", other users pointed out it can be a "current type phono stage".

I had no idea what is a "current type phono" back in 2015 when i started this thread, simply a lack of knowledge.

It’s an old post as you can see, last year i have opened up this phono stage to replace 47k Ohm resistors for MM input (for a Vishay 100k Ohm). I’ve noticed the SUTs inside (you see one between the caps) does not looks like Lundahl SUTs, now i decided to upgrade the caps with higher grade Audyn Reference (ordered this week). I want to replace the internal SUTs with Lundahl LL9226 (here is the whole catalog).

Last night i have re-read the whole thread again. Maybe it’s not a current type phono stage?

---------------------------------------
FROM THE MANUAL:

The PHONATA works with two-stage amplification:

• An inductive VOLTAGE AMPLIFICATION  stage (for MC cartridges) using high
performance professional audio step-up transformers.

• A solid state CURRENT AMPLIFICATION stage, using specific MOS-FET transistors with tube-typical harmonic distortion characteristics.

• You don’t have to adjust the load-Impedance of your cartridge (plus the interconnect-cable between cartridge and Phono-Preamplifier). It goes automatically thanks to one ingenious piece of circuitry.

• You don’t have to adjust the source voltage of your cartridge as well.

• There are no micro-switches or any other mechanical contacts in the signal-path.

Technical Data:

MC-Input Impedance Range: < 100 Ohm to 50kOhm
MM-Input Capacity: 100pF
THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) @ 1kHz: 0.01%
SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) MC: >72dB
SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) MM: >85dB
Max. Input Voltage for MC-cartridges (theoretical value): 1200mV @ <1% THD
High Performance, Professional Type Step-Up Transformers.
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
@sksos1 Well, thanks, but i think you missed the point, i have an external SUTs and headamps, but this topic is about WLM phono stage with internal SUTs, they are small and mounted on the motherboard inside my phono stage. I don’t need another external sut.

Also i trust SUTs manufacturers like swedish Lundahl more than to a local DIYers. Lundahl made SUTs since 1958. All i need is to solder two better SUTs directly to the motherboard of my existing phono stage. 
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
To summarize it from the manual:
WLM is An inductive VOLTAGE AMPLIFICATION (SUTs) + A solid state CURRENT AMPLIFICATION stage (MOS-FET)

There is a separate MM phono stage inside and i’m happy about the quality of it with 100k Vishay load resistors.

My upgrade now is all about separate MC part of Phonata, so i think i will replace SUTs and i will also replace stock 47k Ohm resistors in MC path with better qulity 47k Vishay.

I wish i could just measure step-up ratio of the stock SUTs to replace them with similar, but better quality SUTs from Lundahl catalog.

Actually recommended by Lundahl SUT (as safe alternative) is very small LL9226:
http://www.lundahl.se/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/9226.pdf

Turns ratio and possible use at different termination alternatives for this SUT:

A
Turns ratio: 1:5
Copper Resistance: 20Ω / 260Ω
Suggested use for best frequency response: MC cartridge < 100Ω

C
Turns ratio: 1:10,
Copper Resistance: 5Ω / 260Ω
Suggested use for best frequency response: MC cartridge < 50Ω

E
Turns ratio: 1:20,
Copper Resistance: 1Ω / 260Ω
Suggested use for best frequency response: MC cartridge < 25Ω

------------------------------------------------

Actually most of my MC cartridges have a fairly low impedance such as 2Ω, 3Ω , 5Ω, 8Ω ... only one of my MC has 20Ω impedance.

So maybe i need another SUT from their catalog with step-up ratio ?


chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
@lewm You are right, i thought it was a current-driven because of the "Automatic Load Impedance" feture advertized by the manufacturer, and because of the comments in the beginning of my post (from 2015). But never too late to learn. As we noticed now the real current-driven phono stage works best with cartridge with very low impedance.

But based on a comment from one of the WLM owner (from 2015): "The Phonata works very well between 25 - 100 ohm cartridges".

And base on info from the manual: " MC-Input Impedance Range: < 100 Ohm to 50kOhm".

This is definitely opposite to the current-driven phono stages.

In the beginning of this thread two people made two different comments:

@hdm

The Phonata operates in current mode with MC cartridges. Not anything really new here. I’ve been using an Aqvox for about 7 years now which operates similarly.

@larryi

It may be the case that "automatic" really means "fixed." There are some manufacturers that don’t think that any sort of precise setting of loading is important and so they go with a reasonable fixed value, typically somewhere around 125-150 ohms (e.g., Linn).

With the phonostages I have worked with, I like relatively little loading (high value resistor such as 47k) or no loading at all. Over a huge range of values, I don’t hear that much change except for an undesirable loss of top end "air" with values lower than 125 ohms.


So i think Larry was right. The question is which SUTs step-up ratio i have to choose now when i will replace WLMs internal SUTs if my cartridges are all low impedance (under 8 Ω estimate ) and low output (under 0.25 estimate) ?
chakster's avatar
chakster OP
6,144 posts
 
@lewm Yeah, i know you like Ralph prefer 47k for LOMC
I can do that too with my Gold Note PH-10 or with JLTi phono stages, but this is another story.

I have separate vintaage Luxman toroidal silver SUT for carts with 3 Ω (DC Resistance) or less.

But for that god damn WLM Phonata i have to choose an appropriate Lundahl SUTs to replace stock SUTs on PCB. I have no idea about parameters of the stock SUTs i have in it. That "Automatic impedance" confusing me.

I’ve checked the article here and there to understand.

I know that 1:10 is safe, but my cartridges are lower in output than 0.3mV:

0.050 mV (Ortofon MC2000) / DC resistance 3Ω
0.15mV (FR PMC-3) / DC resistance 8.6Ω
0.2 (Klipsch MCZ Ruby) / DC resistance 2Ω
0.24mV (FR-7fz) / DC resistance 5Ω

Which step-up ratio of the SUT would you choose for example for your Ortofon MC2000 ? 1:32 or more ?

I’ve checked K&K Audio for which Lundahl SUTs installed in their kit. There are two kits (basic and premium).

Basic with LL9226 http://www.lundahl.se/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/9226.pdf

Premium with LL1931 http://www.lundahl.se/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/1931.pdf

Maybe i have to choose one of these SUTs from Lundahl to soldeg them in my WLM instead of the cheap stock SUTs i got there now.







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