Phono Stage upgrade to complement Dohmann Helix One Mk 2


Thanks to the recommendations from many users on this Audiogon blog, I think I was able to make a more informed purchase of a turntable, the Dohmann Helix One Mk 2.  I've really been enjoying the turntable for the past month!  

The next phase of my system now needs attention:  the phono stage.  Currently, I'm using a Manley Steelhead v2 running into an Ypsilon PST-100 Mk2 SE pre-amplifier (into Ypsilon Hyperion monoblocks, into Sound Lab M745PX electrostatic speakers). 

I've been told that I could really improve my system by upgrading the phono stage from the Manley Steelhead (although I've also been told that the Manley Steelhead is one of the best phono stages ever made).  
Interestingly, two of the top phono stages that I'm considering require a step-up transformer (SUT).  I'm not fully informed about any inherent advantages or disadvantages of using an SUT versus connecting directly to the phono stage itself.  

I suppose my current top two considerations for a phono stage are the Ypsilon VPS-100 and the EM/IA  LR Phono Corrector, both of which utilize an SUT.  I don't have a particular price range, but I find it hard to spend $100k on stereo components, so I'm probably looking in the $15k - $70k price range. 
Thanks. 

drbond

Dear @holmz @drbond : At the end digital tech is used in almost all today subwoofers through the DSP that is the one that can gives us ( comes with a microphone. ) where in position and to our " ears " makes the " best " system/room integration.

 

drbond, today there are 20+ true subwoofer manufacturers so we have a wide range about. Btw, can works really fine with your SL, no problem.

This one is the today Velodyne ( mines are out of production 16 years ago. ). My way of thinking is to go with the " winner " till be outperformed:

 

https://www.velodyneacoustics.com/en/products/digital-drive-plus/#digital-drive-18-plus

 

I know by references that its DSP software is really good. The sub’s integration is critical.

You will know if your choosed sub’s are well integrated when those subs never tells you " hey I’m here " ( boom, boom, boom.... ) but only when the MUSIC is demanding asking for. When the subs are well integrated you can’t detect from where comes the bass other that when the score ask it but when the scrore is asking for the experience is just unique/marvelous and full of emotions, nothing can even it.

 

R.

Even this 32K dollars can't even the Velodyne THD 0.5%. Well certainly maybe the best sub out there and you need 64K  :

 

https://www.magicoaudio.com/news/magico-titan-15-the-ultimate-powered-subwoofer-2

 

 

 

 

Dear @holmz@drbond : At the end digital tech is used in almost all today subwoofers through the DSP that is the one that can gives us ( comes with a microphone. ) where in position and to our " ears " makes the " best " system/room integration.

^All true^. However the analogue approach is well thought with the Vandy sub system.

It may not work in a system with a different filter in the speakers as the phase could be off.

And everyone one adjusts the subs with a microphone, and either potentiometers or S/W equivalent of a potentiometers.

At least knowing that there are non-DSP approaches, and mentioning it in a thread, is not a crime. We would need a way to compare that solution to the digital one☝️to be able to say whether it is better, worse, or the same.

If one is a purist then “High Pass Filtering” (HPF) the signal going to the main speakers is often a bit “on the nose” conceptually. I have no problem with DSPs, and streaming into and out of a DAC, and conceptually into and out of a DSP. But those that do, may want to know that they’re is a non-DSP approach.

And one can then use a DSP “ONLY” on the sub band without digitally touching the signal coming out of the L/R speakers.

Dear @holmz : A subwoofer is a complete solution where the crossover is only an inherent and important part of any sub ( a key like you posted. ) along the box, drivers and the like.

^Correct^. You are not the only fellow or lady that understands what a system is.

The crossover is not a second product but is part of the subwoofer it self that must has a low/high pass filters and several other functions.


The other stuff on that web-site has the subs which rely on the HPF.
(It’s part of a system)

 

Even this 32K dollars can’t even the Velodyne THD 0.5%. Well certainly maybe the best sub out there and you need 64K :

It is sort of important to note that the 0.5% is meaningless in the sub band…

But it becomes pretty important in terms up HD and IMD for the higher frequencies that attenuated from the filter, but still made be created in the sub itself, and then give away their location.

 

The subwoofer bass solution with good integration to the main speakers and room give you huge benefits. We can’t talk here of disadvantages in the same way we can’t say that a phono stage has the disadvantage of the RIAA eq. because it’s part of the phono stage in the same way that creossover is integral part of a subwoofer.

Btw, when we have well integrated subs in our system there is no come back, we learn that we can’t listen any more with out it due that helps to lower the distortions levels of not only the speakers but amplifiers too and several other advantages.

Again… you are not first to discover ^this^.

drbond, Duke Lejeune is the man to whom you refer, who is a friend to Ralph Karsten.  His business is called "Audiokinesis".  If I were to add a subwoofer, that is where I would look. Duke is the salt of the earth, a great guy and very knowledgeable about what he is doing.  I am sure that Raul's recommendation for Velodyne would also be an excellent choice. But don't let Raul and Mijo make you feel inadequate. By all means, do add a subwoof, if you perceive that you need it, in your room, for your musical tastes.

@lewm 

I’ve been reading a little about sub woofers, and many sites do say that adding a subwoofer can make a real difference  in other areas, such as sound stage, imaging, mid-range, etc.  I’m not really sure things can sound much better, but I think it’s at least worth a trial to see if it’s any better, or possibly worse. . .

Dear @drbond : " adding a subwoofer can make a real difference in other areas, such as sound stage, imaging, mid-range, etc. I’m not really sure things can sound much better, but I think it’s at least worth a trial to see if it’s any better..."

Yes, exist several room/system benefits but your " key " words in that statement are:

 

" worth a trial..."

 

I could think that no matters what no one could knows if needs or not sub’s till he " trials " in his room/system.

Yes, you have to test it.

 

R.