Network Switches

Hey @mitch2  good luck getting an affirmative answer from this guy. They never try anything. They just know. And if you do get an answer, it will be something like “I don’t have to go go North Pole to know it’s cold out there”. Or something like that. A stupid sophism 

No. Not yet. I will try this weekend

Is not the sole purpose of the equipment in question, in both the professional and amateur setups, to get the radio/TV show from a to b ?

What @david 22 in UK?? Are you asking whether the sole purpose of an audio system is get sound coming out of it? An Alexa speaker does that job very well.... so...

For some reason, David in UK sounds exactly like Stewart Pinkerton, self-proclaimed "slayer of snake oil" in all internet audio groups and Facebook. And the only "contribution" to audiogon forums since he joined yesterday, is this thread.

Can a digital switch, as the manufacturers and 'reviewers' say it can, improve audio and video streams passing through it. ?

Yes it can. Don't know about video, but audio, yes. The rationale is simple:  It is all about some form of noise (usually either voltage noise or phase noise) hitching a ride along with the digital data (the bits) and getting into the DAC. This causes distortions in the analog signal which somehow affects the human perceptual system. THAT is what an "audiophile switch" attempting to accomplish: getting rid of those noise components before they reach your DAC.

So no switch for me

That was obvious with your first post. So really, not sure why you were posting here. It's not like someone could change your mind and convince you to buy a switch, is it? Besides, why don't you try a switch for yourself? Is it so hard to do?

I am pretty sure you are one of those people from audio "science" forums claiming that all DACs sound the same, and a $50 DAC from China would provide the same SQ as any SOTA DAC. Heck... someone told me there that a DAC is not even part of the audio signal / chain !!

Geez.... some toxic comments here from "everything-sounds-the-same" crowd. Relax, it's just a hobby. Nobody is pointing a gun in your head forcing to buy a switch. Don't buy it. Why do you even read this thread?

Warning!!!! to people who are against switches --- do not read this:

Facts from October launch at UpTone:

1) EtherRegen first batch of 250 units for delivery in November 15 was sold out in three minutes

2) Second batch of 250 unites with deliver date of December 15, was sold out within one hour from launch

3) Orders for the third batch with unspecified 2020 delivery are through the roof

Now please haters... don't slit your wrists :-) For help:

https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

You are saying @atdavid that Pinkerton would approve of the switch? That would be shocking. It will wake all the zombies that follow him and Ethan Winer as disciples, and practically copy/paste all what they say in all audio forums.

Hi @nonoise  Yes, I saw that on Facebook group promoted by someone. Yes, it is not so expensive, but it is a modified Cisco SG110D-08 switch, not something built on purpose from the ground up like the EtherRegen

@david_ten  : thanks for your post on Sonore. I was replying to someone else. 

I am very familiar with the company. I currently own two opticalModules from them and SGC linear power supplies. Over the years, I have owned other products for them, including microRendu, ultraRendu, and SGC server (i5).

It's "Sonore". Not Sonare.

Do you have any experience with them @yyzsantabarbara  ?

It's Sonore. Not Sonare

No idea about the reasons why. I can tell you that when I put the TPLinks, the improvement was almost nonexistent. Totally different level with the opticalModules.

Oh they are great! As I said, I currently own a pair of opticalModules. In terms of streamers and servers, I was very happy with Sonore solutions, but I ended up getting an Innuos ZENith MK3 last January, that works well for me, and takes care of both streaming and "serving" (and CD ripping)

Thanks @david_ten  

To spice things up, I ordered the EtherRegen the day it launched. Lucky enough, able to make into the first batch. So it ships on November 15th. It will be interesting to compare it with the opticalModules. Replacing them entirely. We'll see ....

Will do.

You probably know this, but if you were not fast enough to order EtherRegen within one hour from launch, and order it now, you won't get it until some time in 2020

@grannyring  -- simple: Ethernet (copper) coming from router ----> first opticalModule (powered by one SGC 5v linear power supply) ---> fiber cable ----> second opticalModule (powered by a second SGC lps) ----> Ethernet Cable (copper) ----> Innuos ZENith MK3 ethernet input.

The opticalModules replaced a pair of tPLinks FMCs I used to have before.

Improvement is audible. Mostly in timbre and tonality. Everything sounded more natural, and more focused.

Yeah... I agree in your case there is no need to maintain other devices. The Ayre EX-8 would indeed take care of everything as one-box solution. Enjoy!

I can help you understand, although it’s self explanatory.

ultraRendu has optical input. So you need a fiber cable to feed it. So you ‘turn around” the EtherRegen.

That switch is more than galvanic isolation that fiber provides. EtherREGEN has two isolated data/power/clock domains. Each isolated domain is re-clocked using 10GHz-capable ultra-low-jitter (less than 0.8 picoseconds) differential flip-flops. So full isolation and reclocker 

First delivery is scheduled for November 15. Having said this, based on an AudiphileStyle post yesterday, Alex from UpTone shipped 35 units yesterday. So 35 people will likely get them tomorrow (Saturday, November 9).

I am in the first batch, but it does not appear I will be amongst the first 35 recipients.

@uberwaltz : I used to have the Ayre QX-5 Twenty. So I can freely speak about it. The QX-5 Twenty had the Ethernet "bridge" built in. However, it sounded better (to me) when using the USB input with a good external streamer, than the built in Ethernet bridge. But that is just me. You can try it for yourself (assuming you have a good quality USB streamer / end point).

You get Ethernet (copper) from router / main switch into the B side of EtherRegen

Then you buy a SFP fiber transceiver for EtherRegen (it has a FMC port, but not the transceiver). Something life the one at the bottom of this page ($20):

http://sonore.us/opticalModule.html

You put that transceiver into the one port on EtherRegen located on side A.

Then you run a fiber cable from that EtherRegen FMC port on side A to your opticalRendu

Then USB cable from your opticalRendu to the USB input of your DAC

My bad. I meant opticalRendu

Happy to help further if I can:

What part of it you need help with? the connection part, or the functionality, what brings to the table for those who have the opticalRendu?

I don't know. I cannot possibly try them all. I have an Innuos ZENith MK3 and a DAC with USB input, so I look for potential solutions that may improve that particular set up. It's worth experimenting and trying different things. It's a hobby, so it's fun

I received my EtherREGEN yesterday. I really did not have much expectations on this (just a bit :-)) but I am already thrilled about what it does. This is one of those purchases that I don't regret making for sure!

For now:

Router ----> Ethernet cable (copper) ----> opticalModule ---> fiber cable ---> feeding A side SFP module / cage on EtherREGEN ----> Ethernet Cable out of the B-side on EtherREGEN ---> Innuos ZENith MK3 (as Roon Server and endpoint) ---> USB cable out to DAC (MSB Discrete)

@mikey8811  I was using similar optical isolation with dual opticalModules from Sonore each powered by its own SGC 5V power supply. I replaced the one downstream with the EtherRegen. Kept the opticalModule upstream. This change provided an audible positive SQ difference for me. EtherRegen gives us more than optical isolation. Read the technical details if so inclined:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/EtherREGEN_User_Guide.pdf?90

Having said this, each system is different. You will need to try for yourself if you really want to know for sure.

It will surely work. But you will have to remove your fiber modules completely. In fact, this was how it was meant to be for the majority of applications, where there is no optical/ fiber presence 

@mikey8811  : update 

I tried my EtherRegen with and without opticalModule. No difference that I can discern. Not even sighted 

My experience has been different @mikey8811  but of course, that’s just a subjective data point. As with everything, nothing replaces your own experience, in your home, with your own equipment.

I agree with @three_easy_payments. Subscribing to Tidal HiFi or Qobuz will provide audible benefits vs. Spotify, even if just red book quality. They often do free extended trials for you to try. Currently in US, Qobuz is running a promo $149 annual subscription with one month free trial. Since you already paid $640 for a switch, do the math, the Qobuz sub is no hardship. And not putting down EtherRegen here, as I own one from first batch

As they say.... if it sounds good and it measures bad, you are measuring the wrong thing...

uberwaltz

I was interested to see other members reactions to that review in particular though and if it had a any influence on your purchase or not of the Upton Audio product?

None whatsoever. For all I know, that review was "written" a year ago, when the EtherRegen was announced

uberwaltz8,731 posts12-17-2019 5:01pm

For all I know, that review was "written" a year ago, when the EtherRegen was announced

Not really sure what that is supposed to mean or what you maybe implying?

There is a long EtherRegen thread running at that site for months. Way before its release. If you had read that thread you would know 100% what the inevitable review was going to say.

three_easy_payments719 posts12-17-2019 5:29pm.. this just isn't a product for me to look into further, at least not at this time.  

And that's of course perfectly fine

If I were inclined to spend $500 on an Ethernet cable, I would probably put it last in the chain, either from the second TP-LINK to my DX server or between the server and Roon endpoint, but I am certainly not going to purchase 3 or 4, $500 Ethernet cables!

If I would want to experiment with just one Ethernet cable, I would start with a (hopefully) short run to your Roon Endpoint

Wow! The TotalDac switch is very expensive. It makes the uptone EtherRegen look like a bargain.

 

Yes indeed Lalit, everyone is coming up with switches. Because nobody is buying such things as they do nothing? 😂🤦‍♂️🙄

Looks like everyone involved with streaming trying to come up with their own version of ‘audiophile’ switches. 

Obviously because they do not work, and nobody buys them 😉

Hi @sns  --- yes, that was me on that Whatsbest Forum thread. I did not start that thread, but it was enough to draw my interest on Ediscreation switch. I am still happy with my units (I have two), and my search on that space is now over (for now).

Many (higher priced) manufacturers are now joining the ethernet switch category, including Innuos, and most recently, Synergistic Research. It shows the popularity among audio enthusiasts on such products. They do work IMO 

Do you HAVE to buy a Switch?

Telegartner M12 looks fantastic! Thanks for sharing your first impressions @lalitk !

A couple of similar options are Innuos PhoenixNET and the new Synergistic Research switch.

For those with a more budget oriented, this is what I have:

https://nandeaudio.com/product/silent-switch-ocxo/

Prices are in Hong Kong dollars, and I bought direct. The Standard version is less than $800 (US dollars), and the Extreme version is about $1,400 (US)

Not sure where you read this. LPS-1.2 is more than adequate amperage wise for EtherRegen. Certainly not from Uptone 

Ah… my bad. My guess is that will depend on the power requirements for the modem and router. They all vary broadly 

Not familiar with that Switch. 
To answer your question, ideally you would want to try another, more expensive Switch, with no-risk return policy. 

Which network switch do you have now ? @sns

You have definitely placed an immense amount of importance, AND work, on your network, as well as power, if not more. Kudos to you!