My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

MSB Select 11 DAC is a superb DAC, when I first heard it I was surprised at how close it came to good analog. That was about five plus years ago! Times have changed, now there are DAC's that I think can compete, and maybe even better it. The Wadax, as mentioned, would be my first choice--if money was no object. 

BUT if you really want to go forward, IME the best source is still tape ( no contest) and then great analog, digital is still not at these levels. ( although getting very good, as in the MSB Select 11 and the Wadax etc).

@jays_audio_lab Aside from assuming that folks have not heard a top flite DAC like the MSB Select 2 or the Wadax ( which IME is even better!); one could assume that those very same folk who are suggesting that top end DAC’s are so great have never really heard what a top flite analog system sounds like --vinyl or tape. Personally, I do not think that top flite tape or vinyl even comes close to these DAC’s---it simply kills them!

Some good points in your video above. One thing about the cost of replacement drivers and their relative value to the speaker, while you correctly expose the issue that the Wilson’s and the Magico’s have, with the Wilson drivers being cheap and somewhat easy to replace, while the Magico drivers are expensive and difficult to replace ( with shipping and other factors increasing the price), I think you fail to discuss one other factor. That factor is how often is one likely to replace a driver. IMO, if you consider the number of speakers of any particular brand out there and then look at the frequency of how often the drivers need a replacement, I think you would see that this is not only infrequent, but years can accrue before a replacement is required. ( sure, if little lord Fauntleroy happens to stick his finger through a driver that can mandate more immediate replacement, but otherwise?)

Therefore, the cost to replace a driver should be amortized over the number of years that it will likely become a factor...and in this case we can see that the cost in all instances comes down considerably for all speakers ( even the Magico). So, is this really something that the consumer should be that concerned about?

Lastly, there is another variable that I think is well worth while considering, and it is this: to some folk, the ’ultra high end’ is still incredibly affordable. These folk make more than the cost of your entire system in less than an hour, and they do this constantly. To others ( the majority?), the cost of the ’ultra high end’ is so far out of their reach that it is not even feasible in their wildest dreams and with their current or future earning potential! Are the folks in my first example thinking they are getting ’ripped’ off--I doubt it, are the other folks  ( assuming they have somehow saved up to acquire any of this gear) thinking they have been ’ripped’ off....???🤨

@jays_audio_lab   While you may believe that your amps are neutral, this is probably far from the case. Through history, amps have improved and become more neutral, but I think when you get to hear the generation to come and then another generation after that, you will realize how very colored your current amps are. 

All gear is colored, it is just a matter of degree. 

@jays_audio_lab To your point that a blown driver can happen any time, that is correct. However, if we look at the number of speakers out there that have never had their drivers replaced, I am pretty certain that it would be a significant majority, perhaps even regardless of age! You blew a driver due to carelessness, but i do not think this is as common as you suppose. Your point about the cost of a driver is well taken given the examples you post, but IMO the odds of this happening are nowhere near as great as you may think. Unless, one is extremely careless!

I do question when was the last time that a consumer who would likely buy an expensive pair of speakers ( north of say $20K) would concern themselves about the cost of the materials to build the product. There are a lot of speakers on the market in that category that cost the manufactures less than a 1/5 of the asking price to build, and in some cases -- a lot less! ( BTW, this applies not just to speakers, but most high end audio gear, and as you correctly pointed out...cabling is another story entirely!)

I can personally think of a pair of speakers that are now retailing for slightly north of $90K that cost the manufacturer a little more than $2K to build....and that’s just off the top of my head!

Are you saying that owning Magico’s has a much higher cost of ownership than Wilson’s?

I think almost all audio gear has a cost of ownership, some pieces more than others. It’s is quite hard to name a piece of audio gear that increases in value over time, never mind keeps its value.

Your analogy of the Toyota to the Land Rover is an interesting one, again in high end audio, I think there is even more ’brand’ consciousness than in automobiles. Certainly with regard to certain products that are priced in the very upper end of the hobby, there is an assumption that reliability and ability is a factor...even though this may not be the case at all.

I always laugh at the example one of my experienced a’phile friends gave me a few years back, when he was shopping for a good DAC. Ended up with a Bryston BDA 3, which shocked all of his less knowledgable friends. They were surprised why he bought the lowly Bryston vs. the much more expensive Lampi that they all owned ( and which he could also easily afford). My friend wasn’t so enamored of the inner workings of the Lampi. In the ensuing shoot out that followed, how many of his friends do you think were still as enamored of their Lampi’s?? So yes, price isn’t always a determinant in this hobby as well....

Jay, agree this is probably not really the place for this turntable discussion.

@viber6 Nowhere do i say that the current Linn is the best available. Yes, it is a different beast than its predecessor’s and superior to all of them, BUT it is not the best available. At the price point, it probably is the best I have ever heard, but compared to a turntable like the Basis Transcendence ( which is the overall best I have heard) it has failings. ( albeit the Basis is several times the price). Also, if you believe in the Linn hierarchy, then the cartridge is fairly low down the pole in importance, below the table and the arm. The hierarchy being...the bearing of the table, then the power supply of the table, then the sub-chassis, then the arm and lastly the cartridge.

I dont know how many folks here believe that source is the most important thing in your system make up, but I am one that does.

I would think the first thing to acquire after the table...would be records, lots of records. Luckily there are still a great number of really good outlets to buy vinyl and now a lot of really excellent new albums in all genres. A good starting point would be some of the MoFi LP's addressed above, but one could also invest in the Tone Poet series that I think gives one an excellent intro to jazz. ( even the new Blue Note reissue series at a slightly lower price point should be on the radar).

@jays_audio_lab  Prefer DAC's? Digital has one thing over analog, convenience....no question. BUT, IMHO 'IF' you are really serious about getting the best sound in your system, you will invest in vinyl or tape, or both. 

Going into analog these days is an expensive proposition, particularly if you are just starting out, but if one has the funds for a top flite system, then both will reward you with a higher SQ than any other source.

Owning an amp that is impossible for one person to lift and move around easily is now a no no for me ( and yes, i do own such an amp). The idea of a 350 lb amp that needs a jack to be lifted, or moved around,IMHO is a dumb idea. While the amp may sound like heaven, the fact that it has this non-user friendly aspect is more than off-putting. I guess there are folks who won’t care about this, since the sharp edges that will slice your hands and the sheer weight that will break your back won’t be an issue for you with the hired help, BUT for everyone else???

@jays_audio_lab Don’t your XLF’s break down into several modules each weighing considerably less? Most speakers these days are able to be moved around a lot easier than some of these dead weight amps with sharp edges. Sure there are a few that cannot, like Magico’s as an example....but even these come with wheels.

I fail to see why one has to pay so much for the snazzy casing and other accoutrements that really add nothing to the SQ, but a lot to the cost and the weight. The D’Ag amps and the Boulder you mention are a very good example of this line of marketing.

@rbach, Like I said, don't like the post--press ignore.  Like I have you on ignore now.

Seems like no one has much love for CAT these days?? In a recent shoot out with BAT, the CAT combo was the easy winner. I suspect it would be against VAC as well!

@jafant Would be interesting to see a video of the original Wilson Wamm...The Watt 1 would be ok, but the Wamm better...:0)

@jays_audio_lab Youtube wannabe “influencers” are a big YAWN. Keep on posting here.

@jays_audio_lab  Nice video. Couple of thoughts...are you using a dedicated line with your amps? If so, hopefully just one dedicated line ( at least 20 amps) for all gear. This is going to be a factor before one should replace the outlet. Secondly, making sure your power to the room is good is very important...just ask Mikey Fremer about this, as he went through a power upgrade to the street that was extremely important...as it always is! Replacing the power connectors at the street transformer ( and possibly the transformer itself) is also highly beneficial...( although costly, but at the top level, that is what we have to do). 

I also think if you have speakers in the room...like behind your screen, that these will absolutely impact you SQ. as they will play in harmony with your mains ( even if turned off!). 

The Furutech outlet is known to need extensive break-in, as you discuss, although why you heard such an initial upswing in SQ and then a step back is odd. I use an Oyaide R1, which has none of these issues and sounds fantastic, but it is at the end of a totally upgraded dedicated power supply. 

BTW, a friend who owns the Furutech NCF outlet says that you can do away with the CF cover plate and instead utilize a ceramic one, easily sourced at Home Depot for a fraction of the price...works as well, or even better! 

Many users have reported the same extensive break in period with the Furutech NCF outlet. Anyone have any thoughts as to why this would be the case? after all the outlet is simply passing through power and it is not having to form in any way.

I wonder if expectation bias has anything to do with the results? 
OTOH, I seriously doubt that Jay would be so influenced.

I’m not saying break in is not a thing. I am asking what in an outlet would require break in…anybody?

@jays_audio_lab If you are using more than one outlet and are not using a dedicated line, then you run the risk of ground loops ( or you are running more than one dedicated line..and the same thing applies!), which maybe is the reason you are hearing the results you are with the Nordost ground blocks. However, I think a better solution is to run a single dedicated line, like I stated above, and run a good power distributor off that line. Your mono blocks and other gear should have no issues with that. Are you even running a dedicated line(s)?

Four dedicated lines could be part of your issue. I would suggest that you get yourself a good power distributor ( if you haven’t already) and run all of your gear off that and from one of the dedicated lines ( hopefully one that is at least a 20amp line) and see what the results can be. As we stated ( viber 6 and I) cleaning up the supply to your room is also important.

Should be interesting to hear what the final result will be after the 500 hour (Yikes) break in procedure...

Churning/Burning through gear like a friend of mine…who is constantly unhappy with his stuff..and changes it every few weeks..a recipe for long term discontent. I feel sorry for anyone who does this in our hobby.

Holding gear for months?? That is no time at all. Some of the most experienced folk I know in this hobby have had their same gear for decades! They love the music, not the gear. I’m not saying that trying to go for the SOTA is requiring one to stick with gear for ages, BUT it sure helps to know when to get off the train, so to speak. That is unless you are never content/experienced enough to know when you have reached a plateau and that the next step up is unlikely in the near future. Contrary to what a lot of guys believe, I am not one that thinks that epiphany’s are likely every few weeks...or even months, in this hobby. It’s all small degrees with typically more steps backwards than forwards. This is NOT a popular opinion with most high end manufacturer’s, or reviewers ( for obvious reasons), but I discovered many years ago that the latest is not always the greatest in this hobby...and sometimes far from it. The mistakes can be costly to you, but not typically for the dealer..or the manufacturer. Churning through gear tells me that a clear and defined ( and reasonable) goal is not well defined in the hobbyist...leading to my prior post.

@jays_audio_lab I actually watched your video from start to finish! Did you not say " I never fall in love with any gear"? That’s fine, but it should be a goal of most hobbyists, at least IMHO, to actually know what they are trying to achieve in this hobby, and more importantly what is possible for their budget. I may have missed this part, but what is your goal from the hobby?

BTW, I think we would agree on most things with regards to audio reproduction...and I do agree with most of what you have pointed out in your videos. ( well at least the one’s that I have viewed...there seem to be so many, LOL).

@ron17 please do enlighten me.

@jays_audio_lab I think there are reviewers who do live with gear for years before putting pen to paper. Not that this necessarily imbues them with more knowledge and experience about the product, but it probably cannot hurt. HP was in fact notorious for keeping gear for years after it arrived at his abode…most times to the detriment of the manufacturer. Not saying this is a correct behavior pattern, but it does show that there are reviewers who have different protocols.
Living with components for just a few months and then moving on…seems to me to be a little self-defeating as a goal in this hobby, even if you are trying to gauge the worth of every product on the audio market, but that’s just IMHO.

You are absolutely correct, but hopefully you will come to a place that you are happy with…which seems like an elusive goal for you. This hobby has a fundamental problem…and that is we are all listening for something different!
The other issue, is also not well disclosed…and it is this…the difference between the sound of a ‘live’ unamplified instrument and the absolute portrayal of a ‘live’ event can never truly be attained. Therefore, the best we can hope for is an approximation of what we ‘hope’ the real event sounded like. In almost all instances, that is nothing more than a guess on our part.

I recently had an interesting couple of conversations with two very well known high end designers. I asked them both these questions…A) how did you come to design your gear in reference to what live musical event…and B) how often do you listen to live music…or the re-creation in the studio of music.

The answer from both of these folks was very very enlightening.

@psnyder149 I dont believe that any recent Linn LP12 requires constant ’tune ups’. The days of the Linn falling out of set up are long gone. If you have a model from even two decades ago; if set up correctly in the first place, the table will hold that set-up without issue. If you are having an issue with a more recent LP12, it is because the person who set it up is not doing something correctly...and that can hardly be laid at the LP12’s feet.

Today, the new bearing and the upgrades to the suspension plus the improvements to the power supplies are truly set it and forget it.

@viber6 Source first is imperative IMHO, but folks like to look elsewhere, as this is a lot easier to do as the new shiny object holds a lot of interest to neophyte a’philes.

Wow, you went for a Bose 901 MkVI !! ...;0)

@jays_audio_lab  while the presentation can be Larder(sic larger) than life, the big speaker can usually create a sense of scale better than the small speaker, so long as the listening room is large enough. This is, IME, the biggest and most desirable difference between sizes. Depending on one’s room size, the biggest speaker that can work in the space is a plus…but not always. Question is how much of that increase in SQ is worth the trade off ?

Excellent video about the 'negatives' of owning the XLF. I think all of your points are 100% correct. The new Alexx V is really a special speaker, and I would choose it in a minute over the XLF's. 

One of the things that can wear on you as time goes by is what I call the 'day to day usability' of your gear. Lifting an amp that weighs in at 200+ lbs, moving a 700+ lb speaker, adjusting a speaker that is so complex that it never gives you the feeling that it is 100% correct..and so on. I learned years ago that owning speakers that I cannot lift except with a fork lift is truly a major negative to the 'day to day' enjoyment of the speaker...regardless of its ability! Now if one has no choice in the market than this type of speaker in order to get the results...but these days that's really unlikely.

@jays_audio_lab Nice videos. I’m not sure anyone can come to conclusions based on the fact that there are a number of variables that still should be taken into consideration before generally claiming that ss is the winner, or tubes are the winner. Those variables are the synergy that the gear has with your speakers, the cabling ( which could favor one type of gear vs another) and many other aspects ( room, tube type etc).

You did mention that you do not know how KT150’s would sound, as an example. This is a very good point, as I believe that the results would probably sway a number of folks. VAC gear has a particular sound, some like, some not, same as your Gryphon gear. I think you can say this, in your room, with your set up, this is what a VAC tube system sounds like, and this is what a Gryphon/ Soolution set up sounds like, with the particular pieces of music that you chose..and nothing much more than that.

My point, a generalization about the sound of tube gear vs. ss gear at this level really cannot be had from your videos. What people prefer on the Youtube video and with their listening preference attached to your particular set-ups, then yes...a preference can be attained.

BTW, you mention a mix of Gryphon ss amps and the VAC preamp, I can easily see why that would sound very good...as IME tube preamps are usually where the ’goodness’ of tubes is at..vs tube amps ( if that makes sense). So, with the VAC preamp and the ss Gryphon amp you are probably getting the best of both worlds. Now, here’s something to try, use the Soolution 725 preamp and the VAC amps...;0)

Not surprising that you would prefer a VAC preamp and Gryphon amps vs. a Soolution preamp and VAC amps. Would be mind 'blowing' and nothing to do with blogging, unless you are determined to be a 'blogger'...LOL,

McIntosh seems to elicit various responses with a’philes...some love it, some hate it...BUT their vintage tube gear is still very well thought of, and IMO for very good reason.

Jay states that McIntosh could come out with a SOTA product if they wanted to, they have the chops to do so. Then he asks that all manufacturer’s work towards pushing the envelope, except he already gave a perfectly good reason why McIntosh should not be doing that, and in fact does not/ will not do that. Hmm.😃

Stromtank is a very nice piece, but you have to really be careful which model you pick. The model that was reviewed by S'phile and the model in Jay's video would not be great for powering almost all larger ss amps. 

@jays_audio_lab   Are you able to sell Artesania to the West Coast? There is a (ahem---:0)) Artesania dealer on the West Coast.

@jays_audio_lab    So, you finally got around to buying either a great R to R machine, or a nice turntable...it was only going to be a question of time, LOL.

@jays_audio_lab  Your top pick doesn't surprise me a bit. This manufacturer has been getting great show results for years. 

Interesting points about Jeff Rowland. I agree 100% that the class D models are not his best efforts ( even though he may think so). The model 8 and 9 were where Jeff hit it out of the park, and where, I believe, he should go back to..Class AB. 

To this day, I very very rarely hear a ss amp that can better my JR model 8T that Jeff modded...after all of these years! Even today, if you look inside the model 8 (or 9) you are astounded by the build quality and parts.

Nice video Jay. I have been in this hobby for four decades ( yes, that dates me a tad) and what you state about various companies pricing structure has been a constant factor. Nonetheless, where i do think you may have over simplified the situation a little is in reference to the CH amp and its inability ( supposed) to drive the bass of the new Wilson Alexx V's. While this may indeed be a factor for this amp, it might be instructive to note that the new Wilson Alexx V is a speaker that is in some ways highly flawed!! Why, because the new Wilson Alexx V basically presents a dead short to any amplifier due to its ridiculous impedance characteristics! This is not the amp manufacturer's fault, instead IMO it is the speaker manufacturer's design flaw! Who on earth designs a speaker that can ONLY be driven by a huge steam engine type amp?? Well, the answer is: Wilson!! Now we haven't even discussed the price that is asked for the new Wilson Alexx V...which is ONLY $135K! That up from the prior model Alexx of around $105K..and for what benefits?? ( a deeper inability to be driven by any amp!) 

In conclusion, i would think the answer to anyone looking at whether or not they are being 'ripped off' by these unscrupulous folks is simple...VOTE with your wallet!! If all of us would do this ( or a majority would do so), I would strongly suspect that the behavior that leads to the 'rip off' mentality that so many of these folk have- would get modified. Until that time...is there really any point to your excellent video above??