Music Server vs. PC vs. Transport vs. ?


I don;t really want to add another rack in my living room. If I do, I may end up sleeping on one of the couches. Ideally, I would like to do the following:

1. Either use a pc or a server to store discs and have them accessable.
2. Have a way for the kids/wife to hook up their ipods
3. Have a way to get digital radio (xm, sirius or even computer streaming, doesn;t matter)
4. Do all of this WITHOUT degrading the sound quality ( i know, the ipod, by definition will do this)

My understanding of most high end DACs is that they do not have USB ports, but that is the ideal port to use to negate jitter. As I was researching this, I got the latest issue of the absolute sound, and they address some of this a bit. My feeling seems to be that one pays a HUGE premium for a server, that both their DACs and PCs DACs suck, and one has to get a USB to AES or other adapter, and still use an external DAC. It also seems that if one is willing to use a lossless system, that the universal opinion is that a hard drive rivals or beats any transports.

So my initial thought would be to get a pc with an ipod dock, run lossless, get an additional adapter say from Wavelength, and use the current dac. That adds at least two pieces, maybe three.

Help?????
Thanks,
Chris

Help??????

Thanks,
Chris
128x128mount_rose_music

Showing 6 responses by brontotx

Chris, I dove into the computer/internet-based music world recently and beliieve my experience can possibly provide some more insight for you. I basically had the same criteria as you did, including multi-room access, one-spot storage of music, high-quality sound, etc. I elected to stay away from the USB route as it is my understanding that: (1) the DAC has to be hard-wired to the computer in this configuration and (2) it also requires a computer to be on to play music.

I decided to go wireless and purchased: (1) a Slim Devices Transporter and (2) a NetGear ReadyNAS (Network Array Server) configured for SlimServer and with 3 TB of raw storage. Since I have configured the NAS with x-RAID (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks) for automatic data back-ups, my effective storage capacity is ~1.85 TB, or some 5,000 CDs +/- when ripped in FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec). I chose FLAC since: (1) I have a PC and not a Mac, (2) FLAC saves disk space and transmission bandwidth, (3) is "bit-perfect" lossless, (4) the Slim Devices have FLAC firmware for data decompression, and, probably most importantly, (5) FLAC incorporates tags with meta-data (e.g., album, artist, track, etc.) for each file/song whereas this information is lacking with WAV files (note: tags are important for sorting an album's songs correctly instead of alphabetically and for managing large databases of albums/songs).

Of course, FLAC is not iPOD friendly - I don't think iPODs support FLAC, but you can easily substitute Apple Lossless for FLAC, or you could easily convert FLAC to any number of other codecs using readily available software.

The NAS installs as an IP address on the computer network. The Transporter gets digital data from the NAS wirelessly over the network without the computer being on; you can also connect the Transporter to the network using ethernet if you can/want to run cables. The Transporter also has the ability to turn the NAS on and off and can access internet radio via the network (again, without the PC on).

I also put a Slim Devices SqueezeBox 3 in another room and both the SB3 and Transporter can play eiher internet radio and/or any of the ripped files on the NAS at the same time. My understanding is that just about any number of SB3's or Transporters can all access the one NAS and/or internet simultaniously since they all install on the network using different IP addresses.

Both the SB3 and Transporter sound incredible, although the Transporter does sound more detailed and less grainy than the SB3. FWIW, I'm playing the Transporter through a PS Audio GCC amp and Duevel Bella Luna speakers. I also did some back-to-back comparisons between the music off the Transporter versus playing the original CD on my well-used Underwood HiFi Level 2 modded Jolida JD100A CDP. It really was a toss-up with both having great detail and soundstage, but the Jolida had the edge with "warmth" IMHO, which I attributed to the vacuum stage output.

The total cost for this leap into the computer/internet-based music world was about $3,600, with $1,700 for the Transporter and another $1,900 for the NAS. You can save money on the NAS by specifying lower capacity hard drives, but I am also looking to use some of my extra storage for video.

Finally, as I am a fan of vacuum stage outputs, I will be shortly sending my Transporter into ModWright for their Class A "truth" mods. BTW - if you already have a high end DAC that you like, you can use the relatively cheap SB3 (only $300) to pass digital data to your high-end DAC.

Obviously, my opinion regarding the Transporter and Slim Devices technology is somewhat biased. Nevertheless, I am VERY pleased and suggest you give the SD technology a good look (or listen if you can). Good luck.
CK - I don't use itunes, so please take my $0.02 about this with a grain of salt. Basically, my understanding from what I have read on the SD forum is that folks have developed add-on programs that allow SlimServer to "capture" whatever is playing in itunes and/or the itunes playlists without having to use SlimServer. These programs were apparently developed due to folks preferring itunes for navigation versus SlimServer. These programs are shareware and apparently take some effort to get working, nor do they provide all the funcionality everyone desires (thus, my prior "not mac-easy" comment).
Thanks for the kind comments, CK. I agree that it is a very cost-effective route, even when adding $2k for the pending ModWright tube output stage upgrade.

You are correct about still being able to use USB on a running computer. One of the advantages of my setup (IMHO), is that the computer does not need to be on (the network, yes, but not the computer)! It should also be noted that, while the computer is not needed to find and play music, I can use the computer to control/configure SlimServer on the NAS (e.g., make playlists, find obscure internet radio stations, etc.).

In regard to cost-effectiveness, I must confess to quickly backing out on an offer I made on David Shapiro's Crimson last month just prior to going the Transporter/NAS route (once again, David, my sincere apologies for my change-of-direction/heart). For slightly more than the $5.5k I was going to pay for the lightly-used Crimson, I was able to buy a new Transporter, will be able to get it modded by ModWright, AND paid for a new NAS with a huge amount of automatically backed-up storage. BTW - the best prices I found on the NAS were at aegis.com (great service too).

I'm not sure how the ModWright-modded Transporter stacks up against the Crimson sound-wise, but my guess is that any differences will not be perceptible to my ears. IMHO, the un-modded Transporter sounds very very good and I can't wait to see how it sounds with the ModWright mods. Unfortunately, I am not made of money and will not be purchasing another Transporter to compare to the ModWright-modded unit (I'll try to get one of my buddies to buy a Transporter, but all of them already shake their heads on what I spend on stereo equipment).

BTW, one thing I forgot to mention to the OP is that the Slim Devices also have firmware support for Apple Lossless as well as a couple other codecs. FWIW, a fellow audio enthusiast and computer-head buddy of mine and I are going to try and set up a VPN (Virtual Private Network) on my network so that he can stream FLAC files off my NAS over the internet to his SB3 and external high-end DAC. Talk about sharing the music!
Tboooe is correct and his recommendation on the Infrant (now NetGear) ReadyNAS NV+ is what I bought. Speaking of "business use", I also configured my NV+ with the more robust "enterprise" hard drives versus "consumer" models since the enterprise units have some ~1,200,000 hours MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) versus ~800,000 hours for the consumer models. For the $100 or so it costs to upgrade to enterprise drives, it is/was a no-brainer IMO.

Again, aegis.com has the best prices for the NV+ that I found and great service (ordered on a Monday and delivered Friday the same week!). They also have a lot of experience with NAS and are one of the only sellers to perform a 48 hour test burn-in. I also paid the extra $100 to bump the NV+'s memory to 1GB, which SlimServer reportedly needs/likes.
While cludgy and not "mac-easy", there are apparently workarounds to using itunes on Slim Devices. See the forum on the Slim Devices website and search for "using itunes".

Also, Slim Devices has a new control device, "Jive", coming out soon (reportedly early January) that will be a lot more user friendly. See: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=47279.0

There is also new software, "SqueezeCenter", that will reportedly be a big improvement over SlimServer.

While these improvements are being driven internally, Slim Devices software is "open source" and there are a lot of outside developers working to overcome the current shortcomings... all of this technoliogy is relatively new and, as one of the developers on the Slim Devices forum stated: "wear shades, the future is bright".

Please understand that I am not trying to compare the Sonos and Slim Devices, but am trying to provide information about the SD route I chose so that others can hopefuly be better informed about what is out there and how it works (at least for me). Frankly, the Sonos is a fine device and if I had already owned a high end DAC, it would have been a route I would have given more consideration.
Cytocyle - while my day of reckoning with a large music library (~1,200 CDs) on a ReadyNAS NV+ is still a few weeks away, the information contained in the "Artwork Setup" section of Slimserver's help section suggests that memory is the issue, not CPU performance. Specifically, this section states:

"Artwork for large song libraries places a significant memory load on the slimserver. There are references to the cover art kept in memory of the SlimServer for each song. This can add up fairly quickly.

The SlimServer stores, in memory, the path where the artwork can be found for each song. Long path names and many songs can cause the SlimServer to use more memory than is phycially installed on the server. This can have any of a number of impacts, from slow performance to complete failure of the SlimServer to run. The raw artwork file is read on demand, so artwork file size has no impact on the SlimServer itself.

You can turn off the artwork scan completely to save memory usage."

While I agree that your Thecus setup is decidedly faster, Slimserver's warning regarding memory and art work was the reason I upgraded the memory to 1 GB on my NV+ from the standard 256 MB. I will know soon enough whether this will prove sufficient (I'm sure hoping so as I really don't care to deal with a "complete failure").

You are also correct about the ease of the NV+ setup - it took me maybe all of ten minutes.